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Hello everyone. Recently and luckily I got a call to come jam with a group (more time playing out yes!) for the week after this week so I got assigned to comping duties (and maybe soloing) for 10 tunes. Now I don't have much experience in comping but was wondering what you guys consider to be an acceptable level of comping. Shell voicings I can make do but recently I've been getting into those tasty extensions along with playing the guide tones since I have a bassist in the group. So the roots and fifths are out mostly so for example the G7 for the ii-V I would play an F-11 (straight fourths). I've been working an hour a day specifically for this kind of stuff and was thinking if I'm on the right track or should change my approach. Since ideally comping is also improvising and stuff but improvising chords within chords seems way beyond me at the moment. For certain tunes I do transcribe the comping if I hear the comping is particular (like cantaloupe island for instance). But yeah what are your thoughts?
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09-21-2023 09:20 AM
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Shell voicings but drop the root and add an extension on top instead! Third and seventh on the d and g strings and then the extra note on the b or e.
You can get looooooads of mileage out of those.
plus they’re easy.
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Yes!! I can see the ninth being especially useful in that regard since I can replace the root with it but on the above string instead (very easy on my tuning)
Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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Yea... comping is way more important that soloing LOL.
The standard approach... shells, 4ths and as Peter said.... will pretty much get you nowhere. By that I mean... whats the point..... it's like your not really there. And then of course... if you just do the same thing over and over... it's like a broken record... Not dishing anyone... just calling it what it is. It's an approach, a part of learning... I guess. But it's not the goal or end result.
Sounds like your just starting etc...
So Yea... you need to play... or better, Imply the obvious, the 3rds and 7th or how ever you want the harmony to be implied.... But your also need to learn about creating lead lines... or a melodic line line on top... that melodically implies harmony and the style of what your playing. It's like licks on top of the chords. Licks help spell the rest of the notes and generally will also imply.... "Chord Patterns". Which are just series of chords.... Like, I VI II V, II V's, turnarounds... etc. They give a much more musically organized harmonic reference... and better approach for working with Form etc...
Maybe an analogy could be.... You want to count to 80 by 20's... 20 40 60 80 and imply 20 is most important number with 60 being 2nd most important. So you can use other numbers between those counting by "20" numbers to set up or imply which numbers are most important... the targets and order of importance etc...
Subdividing is a musical rhythmic approach for doing that musically. And Chord Patterns are a musical harmonic device for what to play on those other attacks created from subdividing.
Along with melodic lead lines or licks, on top of those Chord Patterns being used by subdividing.... you add...
...Tonal Targets... Tonal Targets are the most important physical locations within a tune. Tunes have Forms.... and tonal targets are how sections of the form are implied. You can use.... chords, chord patterns, melodic lead lines, (licks) and rhythmic patterns to make tunes feel alive and create space for the melody, solos and rest of ensemble to create... and perform in a jazz style.
It's not as difficult as it sound.... just think and hear in larger sections of time and space. Use...Patterns to create repetition or at least imply and create the appearance of organized use of time or space within the FORM.
And use the above... for what to play within those patterns.
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Check out Randy Vincent's "Three-Note Voicings and Beyond", it's an incredible resource. I've read through the whole thing twice already but have been focusing on just Chapter 2 for maybe four months now. The basic idea is what basically Peter said: Take a shell voicing, forget about the root and add some extensions. Randy goes through a lot of examples of just ii-V-I's of different extensions, inversions and so on. Once you got that under your fingers, you go ahead and try to comp by making music with your voicings, voice-leading nicely.
Just this alone - going through three-note voicings of a ii-V-I in all inversions - will get you a long way towards "improvising chords".
One other tip that helped me a lot: Transcribe comping, but only the rhythm! For me it was Ed Bickert on Paul Desmonds "Pure Desmond" and Wynton Kelly on Hank Mobley's "Soul Station". You'll see that the voicings themselves aren't really that important, it's the rhythm that makes comping tasty.
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Rhythm is super important...and being interesting rhythmically doesn't mean playing more! Originally Posted by ModesSchmodes
Also, if you listen to Bickert, you'll hear someone who was about as good at creating that melodic line on top as anyone in jazz guitar history.
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Chordal licks, rhythm, counter-melody, and Ed Bickert... I'll definitely look into these as this is going to be my last discussion on this forum (its been swell!). Perhaps composing the comp parts differently for at least 3 times for each tune will also help out with the improv aspect of it and not sound like a broken record hopefully. But yeah I appreciate everyone's input here
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Not sure why you are leaving, but whatever. Gotta do what's best for you. Originally Posted by jazznylon
I think writing out parts, just like writing out solos, is a great way to practice this stuff. Obviously, in the moment, the goal is to hear and react, but having some set ideas is definitely part of the process in being able to do that.
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Comping requires more than one skill.
Assuming you know a couple of ways to play the basic chords, the next thing to consider, arguably, is the rhythmic aspect of the comp. Where, exactly, in the bar are you going to play?
A basic version is playing on 1 and and-of-two. And, for chords, play thirds and sevenths on the D and G strings. That's probably as simple as it can get. And it's the kind of thing you probably need to be able to do in order to do something more sophisticated.
From there, you can expand rhythmically and/or harmonically. And, it immediately gets more complicated. If you want to add rhythm, you have to figure out some good chord or note to play. So, adding rhythm and harmony are done together. I don't know how to advise someone to do this, but I can say that I learned it a tune at a time, at least at first.
I think that Aebersold offers a CD with guitar comping. Might be worth checking that out.
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Focus about the rhythm
Focus on the lead line of the chords
Listen to the soloist
Play more complex in the gaps
its not necessary to join in with the soloist
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Yes! I've been listening a lot to "Rosemary Clooney sings Ballads" lately and Ed's comping is just so wonderful! I'll be listening with one ear while doing stuff and some little melody he plays will catch my ear. Such a great record! Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Lots of good info here, thanks to all the contributors and the eventual synthesis of views provided by the OP.
I was going to add listen to Jim Hall’s minimalist comping on, for example, the records he did with Sonny Rollins. Then I realized that would be a very specific example in a particular context in which the artist being comped for had an idea, even a vision.
So I thought a bit further and realized, in addition to, or really before “how to comp,” I suppose it’s important to ask “why comp”? In other words, what’s the performance context?
Back to the OP’s inquiry, what are the 10 tunes? The other tunes and instruments? Are there vocal tunes? Does the leader have a sound they are after?
It was mentioned as a jam with a group. Is it a jam session for fun and learning? Or a rehearsal for a paid gig? Or is it sitting in on some one else’s gig? How about audience? Is it a one off or a new beginning?
Perhaps these are not relevant to what started this discussion, but I think those kinds of contextual questions might be just as important as the very valuable “how to” suggestions offered here.
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Since I have no idea what your style is, nor what kind of group you're playing with, I'm not sure of any way to give you competent advice. Except for this: listen to people who comp in a way that's attractive to you and that you would like to sound like. And then figure out what they're doing rhythmically and harmonically. This won't get you comping brilliantly in four hours or less, as many clickbait videos will promise. But it will give you depth and nuance. This advice will apply to any style of group music, jazz or otherwise, and every sub-style of jazz.
One of my favorite compers is Herbie Hancock behind Miles Davis and in the Wayne Shorter groups of the same era. But if you are playing in a 1920s-30s style swing band or a gypsy jazz band, that reference isn't going to be so helpful to you. Ed Bickert, as already mentioned, is one of my very favorite musicians and possibly my favorite jazz guitarist. His comping is sublime. Listen to Pat Matheny on the album "Wish" where he's more a side man with Joshua Redman. He's a damn good accompanist.
I love comping. It is my favorite thing to do in music. I can happily comp all night long and never take a solo.
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For great comping on a variety of standards, I'd recommend listening to Ralph Sharon (piano) with Tony Bennett.
On guitar, any chord(s) Jim Hall ever played.
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my suggestion is
Really Listen to the line or tune as it
is happening ….
play simply gently underneath to support it
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then in the gaps ….
play a bit more varied ‘stuff’
(harmonically and/or rhythmically)
or a counter melody etc etc
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the tune is like the bricks
the comping is like the mortar round
those bricks
Listen like a Bat
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yea... here is somewhat vanilla example of how to comp. By that I mean how to actually comp in a Jazz style that should reflect or imply what the Tune or the arrangement or just the performance can be approach.... comping.
It's just example of using a Chord Pattern, I VI II V and how you can expand how that Chord Pattern can be adapted to fit different harmonic contexts.... different Tonal references, Maj. Min, modal, styles etc..
I made this a long time ago... LOL but still applies.
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