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Nope. At least not to me, and apparently not to others. But no worries. It’s still been a fun thread to follow. I just won’t keep adding to the static.
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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04-26-2023 10:44 PM
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Static's fine
Ok, so here's another trip on the A Train with the "staggered strum."
This is a pretty key point, I think. I've also settled on a .94 pick.
For now.
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Sounds great! Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Static's fine
Ok, so here's another trip on the A Train with the "staggered strum."
This is a pretty key point, I think. I've also settled on a .94 pick.
For now.
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Thanks!
So yeah, because I clearly am having a tough time putting my thought train into words this week (see the bebop thread) what I'm getting at here is playing 4 to the bar, old school, swing, Freddie Green is my Lord and Savior rhythm guitar.
Webby, I hope you get a chance to contribute more, your last post was an eye opener.
Also, wht's a good strap for this? Nothing I have around the house is long enough...tie to headstock, I assume?
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One of the questions I have about Freddie style is this.
Sometimes I hear 4 quarters that are equally accented and other times I hear 2 and 4 sound different from 1 and 3.
What goes into that choice?
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It seems tempo would have a lot of play in this...and how the drummer is playing too. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
Now, it's a very different style, but I had a good Django style rhythm player tell me once, it's not so much an ACCENT, but rather a change in timbre on the 2-4 if you can. He would do this by striking more strings on the 2 and 4. Not louder, and the strings he included we muted, but it was just enough to change the sound...
He also said that if you can't do that, just play it straight. No rhythm guitarist ever got kicked out of a band for being boring but with great time.
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I went with "rhythm guitar" in the title of the thread and didn't assume it was limited to a particular style.
I don't listen to everything, but in the stuff I do listen to, it seems to me that there are modern developments in rhythm guitar which you can hear in players like Chico Pinheiro and Vinicius Gomes, (Vinicius will be at Dizzy's in NYC tonight at 11:15 pm and maybe also tomorrow, with the Edu Ribeiro Trio). Also Marcos Texeira has a novel sound and rhythmic approach; he can be heard in the Open Studio Samba pack free sample.
This is a combination of driving rhythm from awesome fingerstyle (and each of the three players I mentioned has a different technique to accomplish it) and a novel harmonic approach (a lot of chordal movement with terrific voice leading and melodic content in the comping) . I know it when I hear it but I don't know how they're thinking about it. But it seems to me to be a new vocabulary.
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Some charts are played "in 2" where the bass player hits 1 & 3 and the guitar accents 2 & 4. Others are played "in 4" where the guitar plays steady (but slightly gapped or staccato) quarter notes, sometimes with a slight accent on 2 & 4. It doesn't always depend on the time signature and it isn't always notated clearly on the guitar part. When in doubt I check the bass part (or the bassist). Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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It's all good. I think I forget that just because I was talking about doing this for months it didn't mean anybody saw those posts!!! Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
But yeah, I'm talking about a decidedly old fashioned approach. This little project is of was and when, not here and now
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It's my here and now! Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
It's all good. I think I forget that just because I was talking about doing this for months it didn't mean anybody saw those posts!!!
But yeah, I'm talking about a decidedly old fashioned approach. This little project is of was and when, not here and now
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Mine too, really. I think it needs a comeback. I was listening to Ruby Braff's "Braff!" last night. Still sounds fresh and fun and swings so hard...and the rhythm guitar is moving the whole thing. Originally Posted by pcjazz
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I'm blushing! Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
I'll have a look through my archives if I've got some older videos that be of use in here.
I use one of those vintage buckle straps. I had it tied to the headstock, which sucked, because it always fell off my shoulder. Much better now that I've installed a strap button. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Disclaimer: I really don't want to claim for myself to be right about this, but I totally agree with mr. beaumont, that tempo plays a huge role in this. I don't know if this is a personal thing, but I tend to move more towards a Django-style thing on faster tunes. To put it more precisely: 1 and 3 become broader and 2 and 4 are heavily accented ("dooh-dot-dooh-dot"). Somehow to me that feels like I have a bit more time to place 2 and 4. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
This is what that sounds like in action:
(video should be on the second slide)
I tend to do the same thing on Two-Beat-Sections, or for Charleston stuff.
That broader quarter note has less punch and doesn't stand out as much as 2 and 4.
On the short clip of 'lil darlin I posted above I almost think about 1 and 3 as an arpeggio, which can sound nice on ballads.
Paul
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I don’t use a strap or cross my legs when playing swing rhythm with a 17” or larger guitar. I sit on a chair or cushion high enough that my thighs are parallel to the floor and angle the guitar body against my chest so as not to dampen the back. The neck is only slightly raised above horizontal. With smaller bodied guitars I use a neck-up. Crossed leg can get uncomfortable pretty quickly and leads to back strain and other ergonomic issues.
For other kinds of rhythm playing and comping, especially finger-style, I prefer to have the neck at a steeper angle and will generally use my Orion with a strap.
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I play so slow compared to Paul’s video. I’m crawling through mud
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First go recording with a light pick. Couldn’t resist a little chord solo.
Interesting to me that I habitually pop in way more skip notes than I think.
I only speed up a leetle bit haha
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yeah sounds great Webby, I second Jeff Originally Posted by Webby
I'm blushing!
I'll have a look through my archives if I've got some older videos that be of use in here.
I use one of those vintage buckle straps. I had it tied to the headstock, which sucked, because it always fell off my shoulder. Much better now that I've installed a strap button.
Disclaimer: I really don't want to claim for myself to be right about this, but I totally agree with mr. beaumont, that tempo plays a huge role in this. I don't know if this is a personal thing, but I tend to move more towards a Django-style thing on faster tunes. To put it more precisely: 1 and 3 become broader and 2 and 4 are heavily accented ("dooh-dot-dooh-dot"). Somehow to me that feels like I have a bit more time to place 2 and 4.
This is what that sounds like in action:
(video should be on the second slide)
I tend to do the same thing on Two-Beat-Sections, or for Charleston stuff.
That broader quarter note has less punch and doesn't stand out as much as 2 and 4.
On the short clip of 'lil darlin I posted above I almost think about 1 and 3 as an arpeggio, which can sound nice on ballads.
Paul
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I never know whether to that D7b5 with an A or Ab fifth bass... I'm confused... probably A. Strangely,
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I had the same quandary playing along with Ellington. The harmony there moves between whole tone and more lydian dominant Originally Posted by ragman1
All the more reason not to hit the E string I guess…
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Quite. I thought about just staying on the D but it sounded a bit anaemic... :-)
Having tried it, alternating between D7 and Ab7 seems to do it.
| D7 Ab7 | D7 Ab7 |
I think it sounds better than just D or D/A. But this is basic, of course. Proper comping would be a lot cleverer.
(I can't play the tune properly :-))
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Well that sure was fun! Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Sunday funday! Warning, the music comes in much louder than my voice at the beginning...
Playing with "dragging" my strum a bit on 1 and 3 on a slower tune...its something I think I hear. Emphasis on think, no proof.
Time to get out of the key of C, I guess
Man, it's so fun to pretend to play along with these guys...
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Do you as a rule play the 5th bass on the 6th string (like Dm/A) or is it because you think that what the recording was doing?
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My current take on it is that it's too muddy to have a fifth AND fourth string note. And the fourth is important. Originally Posted by ragman1
The 6th string is easier to "de-accentuate" if you will...I think eventually I want to lose it too, but it's good for knowing where I'm at...its a training wheel on a bicycle.
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No, I agree, with shells it's a lot easier and in some cases sounds richer. In fact, you were doing that on the vid and it was good.
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It sounds better to fret it even if you're not playing it. I think that's probably common knowledge among rhythm players, but I needed to do it to prove it to myself. Originally Posted by ragman1
And obviously, if you're really doing the one note thing at a fast tempo, you might not be playing the whole chords...too much shifting...
I also need to remember, sometimes fuller is not better. Smaller the group, bigger the chord...and 3 notes is "big."
I'll be doing a "talky" video later today about guitar setup and the difference in sound depending on how many strings you fret. I've raised my action to 3.5mm...I feel like a crazy person already, but I'm probably still 2mm shy of what some of these cats were using...
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