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  1. #1

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    Does anyone know why chords in the real book are sometimes written as triads instead of seventh chords?

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Who knows what lurks in the minds of the real book creators???
    Best guess:

    When you say F as opposed to Fma7, Fma9, Fmaj6/9, etc.
    it is presented as an open option fielders choice as to what exact
    type or types of major family sounds to use. A straight F triad
    can also be fair game in a given context.

  4. #3

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    The RB seems quite inconsistent with regard to chord symbols.

    most usually you would avoid a tonic seventh chord on a root note melody. So you don’t have Cmaj7 with a C melody note.

    Beyond that:

  5. #4

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    Haven't rechecked but from memory unadorned triads mostly appear in the RB as part of a CESH movement: e.g. Cm, Cm maj7, Cm7, Cm6 or Cm, Cm#5, Cm6, Cm7.

  6. #5
    Thanks for the responses! I will keep those perspectives in mind.

  7. #6

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    After many years I would rather ask why there are so many 7th chords in RB where triads would perfectly work

  8. #7

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    Some of it is random, but sometimes it fits the melody or the chord movement.

  9. #8
    Looks like I answered my own question LOL! I think it has to do with the minor ii V i. Harmonic minor is the scale that’s called for to use over the V chord in a minor ii V i and the i chord in harmonic minor is a minor triad. Sometimes a minor triad will also show up when trying to apply chromatic note movement within a chord when a chord may last for an entire bar or even 2 bars and I always understood that. So I just wanted to share this in case anybody else had the same question or may ask the same question in the future.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarboy
    Looks like I answered my own question LOL! I think it has to do with the minor ii V i. Harmonic minor is the scale that’s called for to use over the V chord in a minor ii V i and the i chord in harmonic minor is a minor triad. Sometimes a minor triad will also show up when trying to apply chromatic note movement within a chord when a chord may last for an entire bar or even 2 bars and I always understood that. So I just wanted to share this in case anybody else had the same question or may ask the same question in the future.
    I typically use a minor 6th chord as the i chord expect over the melody .

  11. #10

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    Another nifty i chord is an (add 2):

    Cm(add 2):

    xx2533 (Eb C D G)
    or
    xx12.8.8.8 (D Eb G C)

  12. #11

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    Look at how the melody relates to the chord symbol as well; roots do not sound good harmonised by major seventh or minor/major seventh chords.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
    Another nifty i chord is an (add 2):

    Cm(add 2):

    xx2533 (Eb C D G)
    or
    Should the first example be the daunting
    xx1533 ?

  14. #13
    In response to James, the minor 6 chord I find tricky. I’m still trying to get a grip on it, it is not like the major six which is used for when the root is in the melody or as an ending chord because it has this conclusiveness about it. The minor six has that tritone in it so it’s a bit of a different animal. I’ve seen it used in autumn leaves as a i chord and I would say that’s for color. I just reviewed All of You by Cole Porter and it looks like it’s being used as a minor iv substitute. Seeing Bb7 as the dominant indicates Eb major as the key but all the other chords are from C minor in the first 8 bars. Opening up another subject LOL. Anyway, I’m interested in perspectives on how to view or analyze the minor 6 chord.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by 44lombard
    Should the first example be the daunting
    xx1533 ?
    Yes, I must have been thinking C(add 2) in my head. I got big fingers! (*)
    In any case, keep the grip in mind for chords further up the neck.


    (*) You know what they say about guys with big fingers? Big nostrils!

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarboy
    In response to James, the minor 6 chord I find tricky. I’m still trying to get a grip on it, it is not like the major six which is used for when the root is in the melody or as an ending chord because it has this conclusiveness about it. The minor six has that tritone in it so it’s a bit of a different animal. I’ve seen it used in autumn leaves as a i chord and I would say that’s for color. I just reviewed All of You by Cole Porter and it looks like it’s being used as a minor iv substitute. Seeing Bb7 as the dominant indicates Eb major as the key but all the other chords are from C minor in the first 8 bars. Opening up another subject LOL. Anyway, I’m interested in perspectives on how to view or analyze the minor 6 chord.
    The m6 chord is the most common choice for tonic minor before the modal era. But minor triads come up a lot last well. As you say, m6 is dissonant. Sometimes just a straight minor is the best options. Depends on context.

  17. #16

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    I just reviewed All of You by Cole Porter and it looks like it’s being used as a minor iv substitute. Seeing Bb7 as the dominant indicates Eb major as the key but all the other chords are from C minor in the first 8 bars. Opening up another subject LOL. Anyway, I’m interested in perspectives on how to view or analyze the minor 6 chord.


    In All of You it is not minor iv sub I think - it just is minor iv. In major minor
    Harmonic major... which in classical tradition generally means minor subdominant (iv) in major

    I do not like those terms really (harmonic major, melodic minor etc) because they do not always reflect the nature of what's going on...

    I think here it is more like waving of minor within a major...

    If you make it minor iv7 it will bring in Eb... this will make Enat in C major chord a bit problematic.
    Not that it is not possible but it makes all the harmony more modal... it leads away form minor in 'major idea'

    Fm6 - B7 in All Of Me is like a continuation of Dm7b5 - G7 idea.. if we imagine the tune in in C minor it would have been a typical turnaround - a deviation to Eb major. But having C major established (and Enat and G constantly repeated( we do not hear it as goint to Cminor or Ebmajor... C is strong root and E nat is strong 3rd

    Backdoor turnaround comes from it... nice name actually, very eloquent - a secret non-obvious way to get to major tonic through relative minor

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarboy
    In response to James, the minor 6 chord I find tricky. I’m still trying to get a grip on it, it is not like the major six which is used for when the root is in the melody or as an ending chord because it has this conclusiveness about it. The minor six has that tritone in it so it’s a bit of a different animal. I’ve seen it used in autumn leaves as a i chord and I would say that’s for color. I just reviewed All of You by Cole Porter and it looks like it’s being used as a minor iv substitute. Seeing Bb7 as the dominant indicates Eb major as the key but all the other chords are from C minor in the first 8 bars. Opening up another subject LOL. Anyway, I’m interested in perspectives on how to view or analyze the minor 6 chord.
    Since you mention Cole Porter: when I play his song, You're Be So Nice to Come Home To, I play it in A harmonic minor \ C major. The A minor 6th is the i chord for the song the way I play it. The C major chord is never played except once, as the final chord to release all that minor tension, C Major6th (which of course features an A).