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  1. #1

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    Hi, I have a new book from John Petrucci who advises to practice arpeggios:

    Am7 , second position
    Am7, fifth position
    Am7, seventh position
    Am7, twelfth position

    what's does this mean?

    Is this about the number of the fretboard (for example position of Am7 on second fret) or not?

    Please help me to understand thank you

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Yes, position refers to where your first finger is. 2nd position means first finger is at second fret.

    Your pinky is on 5th fret, the "A" note on low E string. Arpeggio goes off to the left, and you can cover 2 octaves. A C E G.

    Fifth position, your first finger is on that "A" and you move to your right (mostly).

    Seventh position, the "A" is on the D string.

    Twelfth position. The "A" is on the A string. Look at a fretboard diagram, and find the other notes.

  4. #3

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    What about the 9th position?

  5. #4
    Yes, thank you for your answer it 's very help me

  6. #5
    the ninth position is a combination with the 7th and the 12th position ('cause the 11th fret have only altered note) if you know the 7th and the 12th position so you konw the 9th position too.

    Best regards

  7. #6

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    If you add the 9th position Am7 arpeggio you have the fingering for the arp on the 6th degree of Jimmy Bruno's shape 2 for the tonal center ( key) of C.

    I think it's helpful to have a context in which to use an arpeggio. The first four listed above match Bruno's shapes 5, 6, 7 and 3 respectively. Again, C tonal center.

    YMMV, but it was Jimmy's approach that unlocked the fretboard for me so that's how I map the world.

  8. #7
    I agree with you all positions are important,
    but my question was find Am7 in only 4 postions (2,5,7 and 12) because on my John Petrucci's book he advise to learn this 4 positions, that's all.
    Thank you to your understanding , my question was not in generally but in this specific case.

  9. #8

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    OK. For jazz you should know at least 7 one-octave fingerings for the mi7th arpeggio - in root position.

    Two starting fingers for strings 6,5,4
    One starting finger for string 3*

    For the mi7th arpeggio:
    Starting fingers are 1 and 4 for strings 6 and 5,
    Starting fingers 1 and 3 for string 4
    Starting finger 1 for string 3

    *
    Regarding string 3, you can also play the arpeggio from the 3rd finger but won't be able to play the root at the octave level, in position. That should not stop you from also playing that fingering. So, that makes 8 one-octave root position fingerings.
    Last edited by GTRMan; 09-17-2020 at 09:52 AM.

  10. #9
    I don't really understand your explaination for the Mim7
    do you mean playing only 4 note all along the fretboard on different positions ? or you mean "box" of Mim7 arpeggio ?
    So for you what is the first string the low E string or the High e string ?
    I am novice in guitar.
    Thank you for your answer, it's very helping for me to unlocked the fretaboard quickly

  11. #10
    Can you explain to me with the example of Am7 arpeggio please ?
    thank you so much

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by pow
    I don't really understand your explaination for the Mim7
    do you mean playing only 4 note all along the fretboard on different positions ? or you mean "box" of Mim7 arpeggio ?
    So for you what is the first string the low E string or the High e string ?
    I am novice in guitar.
    Thank you for your answer, it's very helping for me to unlocked the fretaboard quickly

    Yes - one-octave arpeggios have 4 notes (R,3,5,7) or five if you repeat the root at the octave level.
    On the guitar the "first string" is the high E string.

    For jazz you need to know the one-octave fingerings to successfully articulate/navigate fast harmonic rhythm, among other reasons. You can combine them to form two-octave fingerings, either in position or shifting to a higher or lower position for the higher or lower octave.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by pow
    Can you explain to me with the example of Am7 arpeggio please ?
    thank you so much
    If it's still not clear I can upload a diagram...

  14. #13

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    Example: 2nd position (I'd say 2nd fret) Am7 arps:

    Code:
    ||---|---|---|---|---|
    ||---|---|---|---|---|
    ||---|---|---|---|---|
    ||---|-E-|---|---|-G-|
    ||---|---|-C-|---|---|
    ||---|---|---|---|-A-|
    
    
    ||---|---|-G-|---|(A)|
    ||---|---|---|---|-E-|
    ||---|-A-|---|---|-C-|
    ||---|---|---|---|---|
    ||---|---|---|---|---|
    ||---|---|---|---|---|
    The rest are left as an exercise for the interested student.

  15. #14
    Thank you so much GTRMAN and BIGDADDYLOVESHANDLES
    It's more clear now.

    I have a other question, have you a memo technic trick to see notes on fretboard quickly ?
    if you have any advise to unlocked fretboard definitively thank you

  16. #15

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    That's a big one. Have you read The Advancing Guitarist?

    There a many little things that you can do. Here are a couple;

    Name a note like "C", then play it in every location on the fret board that exists. Use octave shapes and you will traverse the neck quickly. Then change it up by playing every location for a certain frequency of C. Example, only play "middle C"

    Other tricks - play scales, modes, chords, arpeggios, and progressions (like various II-V-I) around the circle of fifths (C, F, Bb, Eb, etc.).

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by pow
    Thank you so much GTRMAN and BIGDADDYLOVESHANDLES
    It's more clear now.

    I have a other question, have you a memo technic trick to see notes on fretboard quickly ?
    I don't think there are shortcuts. When you play, slower can be better -- think of the note as you play it, rather than muscle memory lick playing.

    Learning a fretboard system like CAGED helps. So does sight reading.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
    I don't think there are shortcuts. When you play, slower can be better -- think of the note as you play it, rather than muscle memory lick playing.

    Learning a fretboard system like CAGED helps. So does sight reading.
    Yeah, sight read some simple things, but play them in different positions. That will challenge you. Start in the key of C until you get the hang of it.

  19. #18
    what is the advanced guitarist ? (give me reference if you want)
    i have learned all note on the neck but when i play it was different as i've forget all notes it's not my brain who play but my ears and the probleme is my ear don't know what the note is (i have learned by the past note do ré mi fa sol la si do and no A B C D E F G ) it's so difficult to me to transcribe and ear the note , i don't know if you know what i say.
    I know music theory, i was pianist but in piano i see the note and understand the sound with in , but in guitar it's so different and i would have this facility to understand and see note like on piano.

  20. #19

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    The Advancing Guitarist is a book, author is Mick Goodrick. Should be available at Amazon.com

    William Leavitt's guitar method is very helpful for reading and fret board learning as well. Check out Volume 2. He has several reading books too. His fingering system is different from CAGED or three notes per string though, just FYI. You can work around that by using your preferred system though. The notes are the notes.

    Both Goodrick and Leavitt were Berklee professors.

  21. #20

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    Maybe this is usefull?

    Am7 positions ?-schermafbeelding-2020-09-17-om-21-33-29-png

  22. #21

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    Or this.

    Am7 positions ?-mi7-arps-jpg

  23. #22
    thank you for all this precision and reference book
    have a good evening
    Thank you to Marcel_A to give fretboard map in Am7

  24. #23

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    no problem, but for practical use i think the one from gtr is more usefull.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel_A
    no problem, but for practical use i think the one from gtr is more usefull.
    Looks like an eye chart to me.

    But seriously I think it's useful to picture both 1-octave and 2-octave forms as such. And then there is the "all arpeggio notes in position across six strings view" too. All three have their use and focus. It's the 6 string view that may have led to the overlooking of the form in the 9th position. Everything kind of runs together in that view, or so it seems to me.

    But whatever works.
    Last edited by GTRMan; 09-17-2020 at 05:35 PM.

  26. #25
    Thank you for your work !
    GtrMan great it's so clear
    And if i understand these "pattern" of all positions can work in other key too , right ?

    is this a standard kind of pattern of minor7 arpeggios ?
    John Petrucci was Berklee student and i want to know if this kind of learning minor 7 arpeggios is the standard method to learn it,thank you.
    I answer tomorrow i'm from France. See you

  27. #26

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    Yes the shapes are the same regardless of key.

    Berklee has a history of teaching 1,2 and 3 octave arpeggios - for all inversions too! That’s a lot of work. I’m not saying “don’t do it” but it takes time.

    At a minimum I think it’s valuable to know 1 and 2 octave forms in root position very well. I also think it’s valuable to know where all the tones are in a particular position across all six strings.

    From there one should also be able to get a lot of use out of superimpositions and substitutions.

    lots of opinions about this I’m sure...

  28. #27

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    Nice grids GTRMan...

    while these chord grids may seem basic to advanced players..they are essential building blocks in the study of chord construction-arpeggios and rudimentary single note lines

    being able to "see" the note patterns like this on every "three string set" is a good stepping stone to extended chords the 9 11 and 13th tones..

    it also opens up the fretboard by learning these patterns in all positions and keys

    it also is a great tool to begin seeing.."chord connections" Ami7 / CMA6 (inversion) /FMA9 (no root) and so on

  29. #28
    Thank you for all your answers, and to tell me more about Berklee , and to your advise to learn octave by octave and no all the box .

  30. #29
    Many thanks,
    in fact i have to try same scale for example in all position as possible right?
    When I learn G Dorian scale , i need to know intervals on single string and on 3 string and all along the fretboard. But this "mental gymnastic" is efficiant about what time ? If I name note in the same time I play , when my brain recorded this in point is fluidity and instantaneous?
    (if i pratice that type of exercices all day of course)

  31. #30

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    "Fret board mapping" or "fret board memorization" advice can be confusing.

    One thing to beware of - the faster you play something the less capable you will be at thinking about or reciting individual notes. Those techniques are useful, but practically speaking have to be performed at a fairly slow speed.

  32. #31
    Ok , i'll pratice slowly, my goal is memorize notes to be free to jam and play.
    But if i memorize i'll be able to play fast without wrong note , right?
    Thank you for your great advise

  33. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by pow
    Hi, I have a new book from John Petrucci who advises to practice arpeggios:

    What's the name of the book?

    .

  34. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by pow
    Ok , i'll pratice slowly, my goal is memorize notes to be free to jam and play.
    But if i memorize i'll be able to play fast without wrong note , right?
    Thank you for your great advise
    I suggest you print out some blank chord grids like GTR used in his posts...and "chart" the notes of the arpeggios...and do this every day in your practice schedule..

    name the notes as you locate them on the grid..pay attention to the fret numbers and what string the notes are on..

    this is a very good reinforcement of learning note names and locations on the fretboard

    these arpeggios when learned well and you are confident with them will be played with as much speed as you can control.

    this kind of study with constant daily practice will begin to show results in a month or so....

    many players actually develop "sweep patterns" with this kind of exercise..do some research on youTube -- Ami7 arpeggio studies and techniques

    hope this helps

  35. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by pow
    Ok , i'll pratice slowly, my goal is memorize notes to be free to jam and play.
    But if i memorize i'll be able to play fast without wrong note , right?
    Thank you for your great advise
    I am only saying practice slow when trying to memorize note locations on the fret board, especially if stating them out loud. I'm not saying always practice slow.

  36. #35
    HI the name of the book is
    Guitar world present John Petrucci's wild Stringdom warner bros publications by Askold Buk

  37. #36
    Ok i'll do that.
    Thank you so much

  38. #37
    Can you give me advise for learn different arpeggios and "when" (how many different arpeggios , frequency of learning and when i change to other arpeggios etc)
    cause i have a time restrictions
    Thank you if you have a "model" , in this moment i learn Am7 in different positions

  39. #38

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    Yeah. There are a few ways.

    Berklee guitar does something pretty close to "major tonality chords first, minor tonality second":

    Group 1 arpeggios: Maj7, Dom7, Mi7, Mi7b5, Dim7, Dom7sus4, Dom7#5

    Group 2 arpeggios: Mi(Maj7), Maj7#5, Maj7b5, Min7#5, Dom7b5, Dim(Maj7)


    Or you could break these into 3 groups to make it more manageable, and prioritize the learning order according to frequency of use. One example is below but you can group them in any configuration that works best for you.

    Group 1 arpeggios: Maj7, Dom7, Mi7, Mi7b5, Dim7

    Grpup 2 arpeggios: Dom7sus4, Dom7#5, Dom7b5

    Group 3 arpeggios: Mi(Maj7), Maj7#5, Maj7b5, Min7#5, Dim(Maj7)


    One more:

    Group 1 arpeggios: Maj7, Dom7, Mi7, Mi7b5, Dim7

    Grpup 2 arpeggios: Dom7sus4, Dom7#5, Dom7b5

    Group 3 arpeggios: Mi(Maj7), Maj7#5

    Group 4 arpeggios: Maj7b5, Min7#5, Dim(Maj7)


    You get the idea.
    Last edited by GTRMan; 09-19-2020 at 09:54 AM.

  40. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by GTRMan
    What about the 9th position?
    For that one, consult the Kama Sutra for best results

  41. #40
    Yeah i understand idea, but i have another question why you write (MAJ7) after Minor and Diminished ?

  42. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by pow
    Yeah i understand idea, but i have another question why you write (MAJ7) after Minor and Diminished ?
    CmiMaj7 is C Eb G B

    CDimMaj7 is C Eb Gb B

  43. #42
    can you give me construction of all of arpeggio or website which contained this formule, please , I foud on site jazz guitar licks but there is error about their example...
    many thanks for your kindness

  44. #43

  45. #44

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    i dont know a website, that one looks pretty good. i did see the error that you mentioned however.

    which arpeggios do you need help spelling out?

  46. #45
    Hi,

    I would like to have construction of Dom7sus4, Dom7#4, Dom7b5, Maj7#5, Maj7b5 and m7#5

    but i want to have an example of tabs with as your example you give me for m7 arpeggios, only if you want. I don't want make mistake on my learning.

  47. #46

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    Take your dominant, major and minor shapes and alter it accordingly by identifying the constituent intervals and moving up and down by semitones.

    Will teach you more than any other method. Also you should be able to derive every possible 7 note scale from the major using this method.

    Tabs are for mugs.

  48. #47
    Hi,
    I would mean "tablature" ("tabs" in abreviation).
    So thank you for your advise

  49. #48
    I would like to have dominant shape in example , as I've mentionned in top of this conversation I'm Novice in guitar.

  50. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by pow
    I would like to have dominant shape in example , as I've mentionned in top of this conversation I'm Novice in guitar.
    Well in that case, you need to learn the basics of guitar. Once you have learn a smattering of the basic chord shapes, you can begin to think about more complex chords.

    for jazz, I think learning Freddie green or shell voicings and learning to comp through simple gypsy jazz style standards is a good foundation. There are resources on this very website.

    Learn where the 1 3, 6/7 and 5th (if included) is in each shape and map out the similarities and differences.

    I did this work early on. You shouldn’t need chord books.

  51. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by pow
    I don't want make mistake on my learning.
    You won’t learn if you don’t make mistakes.