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03-11-2020 03:44 PM
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james chirillo gives his player recommendations- some great ones! and with great info
these were filmed as a part of the essentially ellington project
cheers
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another great vid with wynton m breaking it down...chirillo on guitar
cheers
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Originally Posted by Tal_175
His comping on gigs posted online is most of what I heard him do TBH... Any ideas, anyone?
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Originally Posted by neatomic
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Or is it?
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Originally Posted by Tal_175
Seriously, that's a very salient point.
A good idea of a (conventional) tune always has to start with a very vanilla understanding of what's going on in the melody and chords. That might not even be drawn from jazz for vocal standards. For Peter Bernstein, it often comes from the published sheet music.
The language of jazz goes on top of this...
Of course we jazz 'eds know that Bbm(maj7) is a ii-V swap for Eb7 and kind of common on IVm/bVII7 chords and VIm/II7 and the like (you might see it as a Lydian Dominant thing)... But that's kind of a jazz thing (to me IVm(maj7) always sounds old school song book and bVII7#11 always sounds more bebop. What do you think?)
BTW Bbm7 implies Eb7sus4. Bbm(maj7) implies Eb7#11
Although the bass obviously says what it is... Could be a myriad of things depending on that... But the same middle voice leading for us...
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Originally Posted by christianm77
TBH I only transcribed solos so far. Transcribing chords (outside of ear training contexts) is new to me. Starting to transcribe chords more for comping and learning from great compers.
I had the idea that as a challenge I should lift a completely new tune from a record without knowing the changes. But I think you're right, knowing at least the vanilla version or transcribing tunes one knows well is more productive, at least initially. Harmonic deviations from the "chart" and other comping devices are much easier to make sense of this way. Moreover one doesn't need to transcribe the whole tune, only things that catches their ears and spend time to digest them. Of course it's necessary to know what harmonic context is implicit in the part that's transcribed.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
"the action of playing a musical accompaniment, especially in jazz or blues."
covered!!
what separates freddie green style comping from say, jim hall?..the lack of improvisation? the strict time rigidity??
well surely freddie green was considered mighty groundbreaking in his day...just as hall was in his...
comping is equally valid as a more purely rhythmic device as it is to a harmonic embellishment
cheers
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Some players (e.g. Herb Ellis) seem to make a distinction between ‘rhythm guitar’ (= 4 to the bar like Freddie) and ‘comping’ (where there is more variety of rhythms and voicings). There is a video on YouTube by Herb where he talks about it and when he would use each type.
Have to admit I was not aware of this before I saw that video.
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Interesting distinction. I guess establishing a groove goes into the rhythm guitar category as well.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Here’s a track from one of them:
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Well, I took the piano disqualifier quite literally and would humbly suggest this:
I never tire of this video and it showcases PB's complete skill set very well.
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My combo comping style is based on listening to pianists. Bill Evans is a good teacher.
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Originally Posted by kevmoga
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I would recommend dozens of youtube videos of David, but here is one which exactly fits to this thread
I Should Care Ed Bickert Comping - YouTube
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Originally Posted by neatomic
comping is the art of improvised accompaniment. Improvisation is present in rhythm guitar but isn’t a dominant aspect (hey I do a lot of those gigs, not disparaging it)
I think Jim Hall really broke the mould by taking over the piano role. Before then guitar was its own thing. And piano had undergone its own development from Fats Waller to Bud Powell and beyond via Teddy Wilson and Earl Hines.
so that was a gradual shift from steady left hand accompaniment to a broken up conversational left hand style. You can still hear the stride in Bud and Monk, but it’s irregular. I can’t think of a more didactic example than Blue Monk which is what happens when a standard stride tenths cliche goes through the rhythmic blender.
anyway, so you get to the 50s and people like Chuck Wayne, Billy Bean, Jim Hall, Tal Farlow and so on are still playing their highly legato, volume rolled down, ride cymbal-esque bop style of straight fours, often with piano. Even FG goes more this way. (contrast to how FG played rhythm in the late 30s totally different). This all parallels developments in drumming btw.
Jim breaks it up with undercurrents... and then takes the piano chair with the bridge. Now he is playing full volume ringing electric chord voicings rather than rolling down the volume for a percussive effect.
that history is a bit oversimplified. But that’s how I understand it. Bit of a step change rather than the gradual shifts in piano. Guitar copied piano and stopped being a variant on the drum set, if you like.Last edited by christianm77; 03-12-2020 at 03:08 PM.
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Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
and yes you would learn a lot from him about comping...
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When I saw the title of the post, Kessel and Julie came right to my mind as well. For me, his comping and her dark, sultry warm voice- I never tire of hearing that duo.
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Originally Posted by 44lombard
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Joe Beck did some nice comping on this LP>
But overall for my personal taste, Paul Desmond's records with Jim Hall and Ed Bickert features some of the finest comping ever played by a jazz guitarist.
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Originally Posted by Tal_175
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Originally Posted by Zephyr690
Came to say this exact same thing.
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Originally Posted by Tal_175
Starting a phrase late
Yesterday, 11:19 PM in Improvisation