What is CAGED

**AZanshin** · 01-03-2010, 09:26 AM

I Keep hearing about this CAGED system but have no idea what it is. Can someone break it down for me bit by bit ?

**randalljazz** · 01-03-2010, 09:31 AM

five sets of scale patterns and chord patterns based on open position chords:

What Are Guitar Positions (CAGED)?

**gingerjazz** · 01-03-2010, 11:59 AM

azanshin without knowing how much theory you know its hard to answer that as i may end up talking about things you dont understand on the other hand i may offend you by sounding condesending so please give me a bit more about your level of musicianship and ill try to help you a bit more

**AZanshin** · 01-03-2010, 01:33 PM

I believe my knowledge of music theory is good even though I can brush up. I understand rules such as the circle of fifths etc

**gingerjazz** · 01-03-2010, 01:59 PM

azanshin could you play a g major scale going up two octaaves starting on the third fret sixth string if so this is the shape that relates to the e of caged because it has the e shape contained within it the next shape up would be the d shape then c then a etc it is simply a way of orientiering your way up the fretboard

**AZanshin** · 01-03-2010, 03:09 PM

Oh so within a major scale contains the shapes of CAGED?

**gingerjazz** · 01-03-2010, 03:15 PM

almost its more a case of the five shapes of the major scales containing the shapes of the five chords c,a,g,e,d rather than the other way round please keep asking questions if this still isnt clearing the fog

**AZanshin** · 01-03-2010, 04:21 PM

So it is a case of finding the shapes in the major scale

**Sailor** · 01-03-2010, 04:55 PM

I never really dug the CAGED system...maybe because I learned chords in a different manner. I don't like "pattern" systems. I tend to do better by figuring out how chords and arps work by spelling chords as I go.

I'm sure CAGED has helped a lot of people...I just don't like the approach personally.

**Space Pickle** · 01-03-2010, 10:29 PM

I agree. I'm wary of anything that's guitar-specific as opposed to music-specific. There's a thread over in TDPRI where people are raving about it...just makes me do the picard facepalm thing.

So it is a case of finding the shapes in the major scale

AFAIK it's taking the easy, open-position chords C A G E and D and deriving a major-scale pattern from that shape. Really it's just a means of giving a name to those particular major scale patterns. If you already know 1) the notes on the fretboard and 2) how to construct a major scale then you don't need caged.

**randalljazz** · 01-04-2010, 03:45 AM

a guitar player not liking CAGED is a fish that doesn't like water. (you can't NOT used caged, unless you don't use standard tuning.)

all pentatonics, hexatonics, all scales and modes, all types of diatonic chords lie on the fretboard in five groups.

**Sailor** · 01-04-2010, 04:24 PM

Oh yeah...We all use CAGED all the time. I was just saying that as a teacher that may not be the system I begin with.

As Space Pickle stated, I like things that are more music specific than guitar specific. The reliance on "patterns" hinders us in the end...I believe.

**Goofsus4** · 01-04-2010, 04:50 PM

I find CAGED to be most useful just as a way to organize and navigate the notes on the fretboard. But I find that the better I get with visualizing my arps, the less I rely on it. I'm still using it I guess, but not in the same way. I see the "A shape" position and that means something to me, but I don't think "Oh, that's the A shape." It's like reading a map to find your way to a destination. Then, the next time you go, you usually just remember where to make your turns and you really don't even need to know the names of the streets any longer. But, without a map on the first trip, you'd be taking a lot of dead end streets.

**Sailor** · 01-04-2010, 08:19 PM

Goofsus has a good point. Maybe if I had begun with CAGED I would be more of an advocate. Not that I've mastered the fretboard, but at this point studying Caged is more confusing than helpful....I look at the neck in a different way.

**BMaag** · 01-04-2010, 10:58 PM

Personally, I didn't use the CAGED system to learn the neck, although I use it to teach some of my students who I believe would benefit from it. It is a great system and I think guitarists need more systems like that.

My whole take on the patterns as opposed to music argument is this: In order to be free, you need to know what it feels like to be restricted. In other words, when you are learning to improvise with a musical device, for example a scale, you need to restrict yourself to only playing one pattern of the scale at a time, until you know each one to the point you don't have to think about it. Then you can be free from thinking about the pattern and just make music.

**Sailor** · 01-04-2010, 11:37 PM

Best article I've seen on Caged yet...Thanks Bmaag!!

You only show Major pentatonic and Major scale though?? I see the minor too, but I'm not sure a beginner would get that (relative).

Thanks, Sailor

**BMaag** · 01-04-2010, 11:49 PM

Glad you liked the article, SAILOR. As for minor scales, I mentioned briefly in the first part of the article about relative minor consisting of the same notes as a major scale. You are right, though about a beginner maybe not understanding that. Basically I intended for the articles to act as a "jumping off" point so to speak, to hopefully inspire newer guitarists to seek out that kind of information on their own.

**bass2man** · 01-08-2010, 10:08 PM

AZanshin:
I used the caged system to learn all my major, and therefore relative minor and Dominant scales in a given key. Actually, Jimmy Bruno's :5-steps" is essentially the CAGED System applied to scales...really helps to get to know the fret board.

Basically it is 5 forms (patterns) that start on the 5th,6th,7th,2nd and third note of a major scale, all starting on the Low E string. You don't need the forms for the root and the 4th as these are built into the 7th and 3rd forms...

To play form 5 in the key of C, play a C major scale starting on the third fret, G (i.e. the 5th of C) up to an A on the High E string. For form 6, start on the 5th fret, A (the 6th of C) up to the C on the High E string, Form 7 starts on the B, form 2 starts on the D, 10th fret, form 3 starts on the E, 12th fret.

You will notice that Form 5 is the Dominant scale in C, G7, and Form 6 is the relative minor, Am.

What is cool is that it allows you to play in differrent tonal centers and stay in one area of the guitar. Say you have some chords in the key of C moving to the key of F. You could play Form 5 in the key of C and then Form 2 when the key shifts to F..i.e. G is the 5th of C and G is the 2 of F...just shift the pattern when the key changes. If you wanted to go from Key C to Key Bb and stay in third fret area...shift from Form 5 in C to Form 6 in Bb, etc.

Hope this helps...