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Originally Posted by znerken
You do know the relevant dorian scale all the way along each string, right?
Told you it was good for fretboard mapping ;-)
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12-24-2018 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by znerken
But, that's not how I actually did it. I learned the notes in all the major and melodic minor scales I use. So, I started thinking about individual notes. Eventually, with repetition, your fingers find the right notes and leave the linguistic part of your brain out of it.
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Originally Posted by znerken
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Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Oh, holy macaroni. Now I remember one exercise that I figured out a year ago or so. Using some random note generator (all kinds of options there online), while it plays those notes, the practicing maniac plays chords as scale that suits with the note.. Change key of that scale for sure. This was good to get to know how your next chord would sound in advance without being restricted to one key only. Lots of freedom there.
I guess when this gets too easy or something, some random interval generator would be the next. Less freedom then but that way inching towards the chordal freedom would be somewhat less painful.
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Bear in mind that some soloists (for whom you are comping, after all) will not thank you for this. They want to hear the chord progression fairly unambiguously. Channeling McCoy-Tyner's-left-hand-on-guitar stuff at them may result in some adverse reaction- if you do it, it had best make musical sense and not just be "hey, man, that's cool and hip" for the sake of cool and hip. Other soloists will dig the heck out of it and want more. So knowing your audience is important.
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Originally Posted by Cunamara
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Recommended recordings where you can clearly hear the pianist using the quartal to get movements? I am currently listening to
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The main questions should be: what makes it move... mostly the same old thing ' tension-release agins harmonic rythm'
(For exmple playing just invesions make no movement to my ear, but making bass line through the inversions can create a movement etc.)
so all we need is to hear that it fits original harmony sounds (maybe extends and ornaments but still fits) and what is makeing tension-release and where...
actually it could be one does not need so many tools...
My main problem is the sound I want to hear and its organization.. tools are fin and fun to try but they do not always make a sound I want to hear.
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[QUOTE=znerken;921627]The trane digged it :-)
And how many people are you going to get to play with who have ears like that? Trane was one of the most skilled musicians ever. For most of us, the people we get to play with are not on that level. If you get to play with folks like that, my hat's off to you.
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[QUOTE=Cunamara;921921]
Originally Posted by znerken
Well, my teacher, who studied with Jim Hall. He is the one who showed it to me. He is a great comper, and use it all the time.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
I think I found one way that makes it very easy for me. So I have 5 positions for major scale. I just mapped two of the Quartal voicings underneath each 5 position. Want to play a mode, think of the parent major scale(which is how Barry does it).
Want to harmonize melodic minor, do the exact same. I have 5 positions to play melodic minor in.
Want to harmonize pentatonic? The exact same, 5 positions.
Seems to work rather good.
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Originally Posted by znerken
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interesting thread, with a lot of great advice!
I'll offer an approach that is a bit different but may be useful: do some arrangements for a big band. specifically, harmonize the melody and write comping figures for the other horns.
you can use a lot of the approaches in this thread to generate this kind of material. you can also write counter-melodies and harmonize those.
I'm suggesting this because it's really hard to write accompaniment for horn players and *not* include a significant amount of interesting harmonic motion. And the best accompanists absolutely take something from big band arranging in this regard.
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Originally Posted by pcsanwald
I think this connects to the wider point that it’s really good to write stuff. Improvisation and composition/arranging have a really intimate relationship.
We sometimes get a bit over purist about the idea of being true improvisers, but purism is pretty much always for chumps.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Things get out of hand very quickly. Combinatorics.
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Quite a few of them inversions turn out to be useless (some 7th chords sound bad, some are uncomfortable). But still worth to go through all of them to see whats what.
Also, if it goes under the topic of "movement" - the inversions themselves ain't the best to jump around. Because they tend to jump with larger than 2nd intervals with the top note. That goes against good voice leading or.. rather this can be irritating to soloist while moving "too much".
... but surely they are worth remembering. Because the good voice leading need the inversions combined with other inversions and whatnot. That's a rather big topic to tackle.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
For no particular reason I've never really gotten into writing jazz solos, but a lot of people do this. But yeah, I think doing things like big band writing and writing tunes and playing other instruments is perhaps undersold as a means of improvement.
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Originally Posted by pcsanwald
IIRC Miles Davis described Wayne as a ‘real composer’ and mentioned the way he would write not only the melody and chords but bass lines and so on. He might not have studied composition formally like Herbie Hancock, but he certainly sunk in the hours.
Personally I haven’t written solos, but I do write heads. I also write a lot away from the guitar, either at the piano, notation software or by ear to manuscript which is of course great for the ears.
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For those on Facebook, Barry Greene hosted a master class on his "five position study" lesson earlier today. He talks a lot about comping and creating movement. Lots of good stuff here:
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