-
Well, no. And the One Note Samba isn't actually played with just one note. The question is whether the only useful context of the min6 is as a dominant sound substitution, or whether it is used more broadly. The maj6dim can imply minor sounds, major sounds, dominant sounds, and diminished. Is the min6dim equally versatile? If a broader usage is implied in the book, I'm not understanding it. I am hoping to explore that in this study group. I am asking whether others have more insight into the min6dim and whether it has a broader application than the relatively limited explicit examples in the book.
Originally Posted by grahambop
-
06-02-2017 03:37 PM
-
I think the min6 is less versatile in that sense. But it can get at least 2 sounds the maj6 can't, i.e. an 'unaltered' dominant, and a min7b5. It's useful on a minor turnaround, for example instead of Dmin7b5, G7, Cmin you could use movements on Fmin6/dim, then Abmin6/dim, then Cmin6/dim. Originally Posted by rlrhett
-
I've read in a few places that in the bebop era, the minor 7 wasn't usually used for tonic sounds. Instead, they used vanilla minor or minor 6 or minMaj 7, all of which seem to work pretty nicely with the harmonized min6 diminished scale.
-
Yes I think you could use min6/dim effectively on tunes with a long section in minor, such as Invitation (the melody leans on the 6th quite a bit). From the swing era, Topsy would work well too. Originally Posted by wzpgsr
-
Yeah, Barry is very clear on this. Minor 6 is the tonic minor sound for him. Originally Posted by wzpgsr
-
Been watching a Harris vid for a week now where he says we should know the "source" of the half dim then he hits a Bb half dim and asks the class for the source.
The he tells them E major. Then hits C half dim and says Gb.
Took me a week to figure it out!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
-
Don't be shy about what you found out. Do tell... Originally Posted by WILSON 1
-
Pages 37 & 38.
-
Those pages remain a bit of a mystery to me, although I think I'm beginning to understand. Is this progression on page 38 leading from F6 to Emaj or A6 (I suppose the answer can be simply both)?
I understand it like this: the F6 drops its 5th to the B creating a D-6(Bø). The "source" of the D-6(Bø) is the E7 by dropping two voices a half step (the 3 and 5 of the D-6). The book says "dominant on the seventh degree". I assume the E7 is the "dominant of the seventh degree" in this context (starting on Fmaj). If so, are we then targeting Amaj?
Wilson1's discovery isn't about modulating a half step down, but rather a major third up? I guess that is the crux of my confusion. Emaj, or E7?
PS, playing with this I realized that if I just drop the 5 of the D-6 I get Do/Abo/Bo/Fo, which also leads nicely to the A6. So I drop the 5th of the F6, then the 5 of the D-6 and voila I have a dim that leads to the A6! Smoooooth.Last edited by rlrhett; 06-04-2017 at 02:11 PM.
-
While we are on these modulations, I am still trying to figure out the min6dim as a minor tonality rather than dominant. Christianm77 says that BH saw the min6dim as the tonic minor. Does anyone have an example? I am especially interested in seeing how the BH approach deals with a modulation to a parallel minor. That certainly comes up a lot, and I feel I have that at the tip of my brain but can't coalesce it.
Alan, any cool moves for Fmaj to Fmin? I'm guessing it is a "sisters/brothers" thing, but just can't lay my fingers on it.
-
Originally Posted by rlrhett
-
Oh, beautiful example of partial chord Monk Moves from pgs. 48-49!
Thank you Mr. Kingstone.
rirhett,
I was just look for a short cut justification for Gb maj as the source of C half dim from a BH vid.
I saw Gb maj as Gb6 and put the 6 in the base; got Eb min7.
Made that Eb min 6 and put the 6 in the base...C half dim.
-
Originally Posted by WILSON 1
Good ear!
Call me Alan please. I'm sitting here in my underwear.
-
Way to much info Alan.
-
cm7b5 = Ebm6 = VI of Gb Originally Posted by WILSON 1
-
Here's my attempt at the blues example put up by Alan.
-
Originally Posted by WILSON 1
This guy is stealing my stuff!
Wilson you did a more difficult variation into bar three. You did Eb6 / Bbo / Bb6 - I just did 3 note (Drop 2 no Tenor) FOUR TO FIVE (C Bb Eb chromatic to D C F).
Well done.
-
Thank you, Alan.
I default to the drop2 voicing (four tones) because I'm having difficulty "seeing" the partials and often end up playing the chord instead...even though I finger pick.
I have to do that too to "see" the 6ths and the 10ths.
I'm working on that; as I think the partials sound nice.
I had to study it a bit longer than I care to admit. Had you not written out the explanations I'd still be working on it!
It's clearer now but I'm not sure if I could build a progression.
* * *
I just reviewed a vid by Barry where he says every chord we play is part of a scale. I'm happy to understand that a bit more now...thanks to your book.
Thanks for standing by.
-
Thank you Wilson1. Alan's playing is great, and I loved the example. But honestly your video production technique is better. Now I have both to work with.
I agree, still not fully seeing how these progressions are being built. But getting there...
-
Having now reached Chapter 4 dealing with scales, I took some time to review all the material up to this point before moving on.
Only had to get to page 5 before I realized I had neglected the APPENDIX.
Interesting thing about the 7 b5 chords as they repeat shapes while passing through the original chord and the tritone.
-
I've just started looking at the "borrowing" exercises. But I do have a confession...
I've been seeing another Barry Harris teacher. I'm so ashamed. It's not the book, its me. It's done nothing wrong. I still think the material is beautiful. It deserves better. I'm not proud. We all have needs. I hope you all can understand.
Yep, I broke down and got "Chordability" by Roni Ben Hur. I just had a log jam on seeing how and where to mix the min6 chords and dominant chords with the maj6/dim. It has given me a fresh perspective and, while not a panacea, is helping a lot. Even on the "borrowing" it has been helpful. He demonstrates borrowing a note on one of the voices and immediately resolving it back as a way of testing out the sound and incorporating it into your ear. Of course, now that I can hear it better I am seeing it on the fretboard as well. I'll post a video of the "borrowing" exercises soon to add to this study group.
-
Good move, buddy!
I started with Roni and then found this forum and learned about the AK book.
I still refer back to the "phone book" that printed out from the Ben-Hur CD and all those voicings.
I'll say one thing. His was the first study that started me looking SUB-DOMINANTLY and then Alan did the same thing!! (see pg. 46 cycle of FOURTHS; AK Barry Harris Method)...makes you wonder!
-
I believe that Alan Kingstone's book and Roni Ben-Hur's treatment of the Barry Harris diminished sixth system both revel through the suggestion that the student take new information through the cycle of fourths is a direct indication that the guitar student should bring all string sets into play immediately.
The post above was to suggest that moving SUB-DOMINANTLY through the cycle of fourths would move a student across one fret and include all string sets in his/her study of the instrument.
Indeed I believe that the instrument was tuned asymmetrically in order that we might play symmetrically across one fret ie. one can produce a II - V - I across every fret!
Just some food for thought!
-
No posts here for a few days....so I'll tee off.
In reviewing section 2.1 The Organic Diminished Chord, I did struggle with seeing the non-consecutive voices when moving from dim to dom. flat five and I wanted to be able to see that.
The others were clear via inversions of the target chord but not the b5 so much for me until I saw them through the TRI-TONES.
Moving from the diminished to the b5 of the tri-tone was the trick that displayed which voices were non-consecutive, for me.
Now, in studying the APPENDIX (pg 89) I see that the chord shapes mirror each other; one in the root voicing and the other in the b5 voicing!
Alan did suggest checking the Appendix A library on pg5...but did I......................nah.
-
Talk it out in a video while demonstrating what you are seeing. I think we will all follow you better. The language describing guitar is often really difficult to understand without having it demonstrated on an instrument.
As far a using all string sets, most definitely. Pasquale Grasso suggests practicing exactly that. Moving through the 6dim chord voicings starting in drop 2 on the top four strings with the highest note you can reach on your guitar all the way to drop 3 on the 6th string. Also, when demonstrating the dim6 chords you see him shoot through starting in drop 2, top 4, root in the bass to drop 2, bottom 4, 5th in the bass. Both directions, he almost always goes through the exact same voicings switching string sets at the same place, which suggests that he practiced it that way across the string sets.
Now, in doing these runs he covers nearly 12 frets. So I'm not sure I follow your meaning on "one fret".
As for "consecutive" vs. "non-consecutive" notes, I had trouble following that too. Then I realized that in a drop 2 configuration the middle two voices were "consecutive" and the outside two voices were "non-consecutive". Drop or raise the top two voices or the bottom two voices of a dim and you find yourself with a 7b5 chord. In the drop 3 configuration it is essentially switched. Perversely the "non-consecutive" voices are either the outside two or middle two, and the "consecutive" voices are the top two or bottom two. I suppose that is why he referred to them as they appear on the staff rather than describe it on the actual strings. He let us figure it out relative to whatever fingerings of the dim we were playing. I personally have no intention of figuring it out for drop 2&3 or drop 2&4. I've got enough to practice without them!
Reply With Quote
Gibson Thin line Guitar Models
Today, 11:07 PM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos