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Lightnin' Hopkins once did a tour with some blues-rock guys and it took them a while to understand that his version of the blues could be 11 bars one minute and 13 bars the next, whatever took his fancy. He just told them 'Lightnin' change when Lightnin' wanna change!' or something along those lines.
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06-05-2016 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by grahambop
That's also why when playing bass I hated working with Folk singers especially doing their own material, never knew when they change.
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The whole Blues Band thing that started in the 60s always seemed to me to be more influenced by Chuck Berry, and Jimmy Reed I suppose, than people like Lightnin' Hopkins. Here's some white guys keeping it real, and a bit loose imo.
Although Wills was pretty heavy on the Native American side.
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Muddy Waters and others created the electric blues band template: 2 guitars, bass, drums, piano, and harp; in the mid-early 50's. They were what the Rolling Stones, and others, wanted to be. Originally Posted by mrcee
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interesting ..... Originally Posted by BryBry
yes i look at it kinda like this ....
on the D7 chord
its an inside chord (V chord of G) so to sound
out/cool etc you can play alt stuff
on the Eb7 chord
its already an outside chord (bVI 7)
so if you play inside it you will already sound
outside
I don't/can't think too deeply about this stuff
as you see !
I'm basically agreeing with you brybry
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Originally Posted by pingu
The simple way I learned it is, if a dominant is resolving CofF or tritone of a chord moving in CoF) then anything goes. If a dominant is not resolving then safe choice is to stay inside with with Lydian dominant or Mixo.
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the Eb7 is moving to D7 Originally Posted by NoReply
Eb7's tritone A7 is moving to D7
so that would imply its in the 'anything goes'
catagory
But ....
I've found that staying inside Eb7 sounds better to me (and brybry maybe)
but whatever man , if it works for you thats cool
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Anything can work, but if you at least have a strong weak relationship that reflects the basic tune, even just the basic 12 blues form, the results of what you choose to play will create a more in the pocket harmonic rhythm.
Example... reflective of the harmonic rhythm of the tune or a blues... for the last 4 bar section...if you use D7#9 and pull your melodic material from D7altered,(Ebmm or G Har. min. with added #9), your basically implying Gmin as target, so for the Eb7#9, play G- pentatonic, which will extend the D7 Dominant function and then resolve to Gmixo. or your choice of a more tonic functional sound.
This very basic functional harmonic rhythm pattern would be a micro version of the form of the tune.
You could also call the Eb7#9 a typical sub V/V and use Eb7#11 and use the #9 as a blue note, same harmonic rhythm effect
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Originally Posted by pingu
Yeah, if you think about it, it makes perfect sense...D7 is the dominant, the Eb7#9 is all the fun tensions...
I've been working with a bunch of ideas lately I've gotten from a friend, on the dominant, you create tension by playing things that pull you to the I. So in this case, almost any kind of Eb chord tones, F#maj, C minor...all stuff that gives me half step resolutions to a chord tone of the I...
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BTW - The bVI7 V7 move is the default in the minor key, more so than II7 V7 IMO.
Extremely common in original changes for standards.
bVI7 straight to I is really common too.
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my take on the tune..its a blues
the name of the tune "all blues" -- clue..miles is having fun..putting several blues clichés together and making a very recognizable tune out of his effort..
..the 6/8 time is a "shuffle" feel that is "half time" for the much used 12/8 feel in many blues tunes..
the opening statement-the major third tone-hangs-then-the melodic line in the second bar..uses the sixth interval of D & B notes.. a classic starting sound of the descending sixth interval pattern used in many blues tunes intro line..
the IV chord change is a very nice offset to the "hard sound" of a dominant to the softer sound of a G minor..with the same rhythm line..an is an easy meld to the melodic movement--
as christianM77 noted: The bVI7 V7 move is the default in the minor key
the tune ending with simple one note ascending and descending melodic movement in the turnaround
so..to me its a fairly simple tune with lots of subtle moves that give players many different takes on what is going on within the bar linesLast edited by wolflen; 06-08-2016 at 03:02 PM.
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Lol. Originally Posted by christianm77
You should write a Tune called Blues Tirade where you play a lot of Blues Clichès then rebel against them ...actually the Clichès will sound better ...depending upon how clever you are ( which I suspect you are ).
And The Internet Article that negates itself:
10 Blues Clichès that always work.
10 Blues Clichès to avoid.Last edited by Robertkoa; 06-12-2016 at 08:30 AM.
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Heh. The thing about cliches is that they work... and that is why they are to be avoided.
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Ask Miles:
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I'm a rocker. Over something like this I'll go with pentatonics and use the tension between b3/3 in a bend, and/or springboard from that into voice-leading motion. It depends on the context -- static vamp, turnaround, or passing chord.
As a static vamp, I love Becker's playing over the chord on "Josie".
In a turnaround I can use the pentatonic in key, or slide some stuff up a fret for an augmented feel before resolution.
As a passing chord I generally take a voice-leading approach.
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Nice thread, I am learning please keep discussing.
Summarising for the sake of my learning, as always seems like no correct answer. Depends what you play before and after, or not. Are you playing an extended line from the v through to the I, do you want to resolve on I or resolve on the bVI, do you want to create tension on that tricky chord or do you want to highlight the #9.
from my learning thus far, fair chance the masters would play minor pentatonic over the #9, maybe they would hear another colour not to stick in their for the professors to dig into their Greek music vocabulary books and us music lovers to go wow where did that note come from. If they were asked they may answer I just heard it.Last edited by gggomez; 06-23-2016 at 07:26 PM.
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If you ain't using your ears, all the studying of the masters won't turn the trick. Take the ideas here, work them out over some loops using a 7#9, and listen -- you'll discover what you like soon enough and that will become part of your voice.
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