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I came across this video on Youtube:
I'm embarrassed to say that I've never thought of this simple idea. In a nutshell:
Harmonize linear lines in C or A minor by alternating between drop 2 Am7 shapes and rootless E7b9s.
It's easier to do than to say!
Shapes:
xx0101 E7b9
xx2213 Am7
xx3434 E7b9 -- optional
xx5555 Am7
xx6767 E7b9
xx7988 Am7
xx9.10.9.10 E7b9
xx.10.12.10.12 Am7
...
Feel free to play any Am7/C6 as a CMaj7 or C6/9.
EDIT: another way to look at this is that in classical music (say Mozart) a lot of lines alternate I and V. This idea extends that idea to I6 and V7b9 to make it sound jazzier.Last edited by BigDaddyLoveHandles; 05-13-2016 at 06:52 PM.
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05-13-2016 04:42 PM
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Yeah. Those dim shapes are chord-melody crack. I'm still trying to ween myself off of them. :-)
BDLH, you must have been in hiatus for much of the BH discussion, when it was trending so heavily, the last couple of years. Good to see another old-timer still around BTW. Looking at threads from around '09, there aren't as many of us from back then...
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I remember the first time I really understood this. I had fun for days. lol
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New to me !
Great lesson. Nice & short & easy to understand
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Another thing I realized about the diminished shapes in this scale: in the heat of battle if you are off by a fret you can slide it up/down. Of course that's always an option but dim shapes seem to like that more than most.
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I didn't want to frighten anyone by mentioning BH least of all me!
Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
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Thanks for posting this. I find the Wes chord scale approach to be very useful.
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It's called Drop 2, a variant of four way close or block chord writing better suited for standard guitar tuning, but often employed by pianists as well (such as Bill Evans)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wwxaJ80nCg
AFAIK this is pretty much big band sectional writing 101. More here:
https://jasonlyonjazz.wordpress.com/2013/09/09/the-basics-of-drop-2/
Wes and BH certainly did not invent it - BH extends this style into other possibilities including contrary motion and other non parallel types of harmony by generalising the two chords into an eight note scale, but this isn't mainstream stuff AFAIK, while four way close is.
I'd be interested to know how Wes came by this idea - I have read he didn't read chord symbols, not sure how true that is. I suppose his ears were just that good.
I read somewhere that Fletcher Henderson was the originator of block chord sectional writing (I think it was an interview with Gil Evans, who was saying that he was very much breaking from that tradition) - any Big Band buffs able to expand on/correct me on that?
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for chromatic lines you can always use diminished, so the concept actually works for the whole chromatic scale as well as the diatonic one. Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
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cool lesson
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This is good stuff.
A little more complex, but you can harmonize a whole scale into drop 2's on the top 4 strings and connect everything with passing diminished chords.
Wes only used about 5-6 chord shapes most of the time for those chord solos...but man, what he could do with them!
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Jeff, do you mean like Gmaj7-G#dim-Amin7-A#dim-Bmin7 etc?
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Right!
And you can make them extensions to get melody notes or even just to compact "grips"
This shape right here-- x x 2 2 3 3 --let's call it a C6/9...but it can be so many things...is a "gotta know."
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Sheryl Bailey has speculated that Buddy Montgomery, who played piano, might have taught brother Wes such things. (Or Wes might just have picked them up while playing with his brother.) Originally Posted by christianm77
Here is Wes and Buddy doing "Groove Yard."
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I'm pretty sure Wes could read chord symbols--there's that famous video of him calling out the names of chords to the band. If he knew the names, I'm sure he could read 'em.
I really get tired of the "Wes couldn't read music" folklore. The guy knew his shit, whether he could read the little dots and sticks or not.
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I know many of you guys like to think in terms of chord shapes (visually) rather than in terms of intervals (harmonically), but I would point out that simply thinking of this in terms of harmonizing scales and voice leading is easier to my way of thinking/hearing rather than as a "chord scale". Of course, this is merely my opinion, and you may disagree or feel free to think it is a distinction without a difference.
In the key of Am starting at the fifth fret, one can use Jamie's allusion to that wonderful blues tune You Don't Know What Love Is, specifically the musical phrase "...until you know the meaning of the blues...". Rather than initially thinking of this in terms of the upper four strings (from D, G, B, E), think of the harmony on the upper three strings that correspond to that vocal phrase. Then add the appropriate voice on the D string.
The result is the same, but I think it is easier to practice and grasp the concept this way rather than think in terms of a "chord scale". Perhaps a distinction without a difference, but I think it is easier both to hear, understand and put into practice. I have always advocated making practicing scales about harmonizing them - creating chord fragments - once you have the basic major and minor harmonic scales down per se.
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Yeah, but we're talking about how to blow with chords like a last chorus of a Wes solo, not harmony in general.
You learn a few go to shapes, hear a melody on the first string, and go for it.
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Ok, but I would rather "hear" it than think in terms of shapes. After all, it is music, not painting. But whatever works for the individual is fine.
In fact for me personally, my eyes glaze over when I hear people start to discuss 'drop 2' and 'drop 3' voicings. But if you play the phrase in question once, I can replicate it immediately without thinking a moment about it. Because I hear it. Maybe it is just me.
As an aside, not intending derailment, but when I listen to Ed Bickert play his wonderful chordal stuff in a band situation, I think that is exactly what he does mostly on the top four strings, given that in that situation the bass line is covered already by the...bassist. Yet I can't think of him thinking in terms of chord shapes. I could be wrong but I think it was his great ears.Last edited by targuit; 05-17-2016 at 09:47 AM.
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It's not just playing shapes.
It's a set of simple shapes used to harmonize melody on the top four strings for the purpose of soloing.
Have you tried playing a Wes style chorus of block chords?
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Of course. If you like, I'll try to post a replica of Wes' I've Grown Accustomed To Her Face, though I'm sure you already play that.
I think we are talking about the same thing, though you and others are thinking in terms of chord 'shapes' while I tend to think in terms of harmonic intervals. The end result would be similar or identical, but getting there for me at least is much easier via the auditory rather than the visual pathway.
Easier for me, at least. YMMV.
Last edited by targuit; 05-17-2016 at 09:54 AM.
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Originally Posted by targuit
No, no, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about improvising with block chords, like Wes would do on the last chorus of his solo so often.
Though if just for that intro alone, that Wes solo guitar bit on "face" is pretty great, ain't it?
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Yes, I like Wes' approach to chord solo playing, which is different from that of a Joe Pass or anyone else in some ways. Wes always seems to sound "idiosyncratic". Almost hard to pinpoint why.
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What does 'Drop 2' or 'Drop 3' for that matter mean. Does it refer to something specific in the chord construction or .. ? Originally Posted by christianm77
Last edited by Lobomov; 05-17-2016 at 10:04 AM.
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It's just the order of notes; so if you have CEGB you drop the 2nd note from the top an octave (hence drop 2) and you have GCEb. so that took you from a closed position root position to Drop 2 2ndd inversion Originally Posted by Lobomov
edit to add: from CEGB you can drop E an octave (3rd from top) and get ECGB which is drop 3 1st inversionLast edited by joe2758; 05-17-2016 at 10:09 AM.
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Yeah, more specifically, how it's voiced . Originally Posted by Lobomov
C E G Bb is C7 , root position, close voiced.
If you "drop" the second voice (from the top, G ) one octave , you get...
G C E Bb.
They just lay out better on guitar, for ease of playing, than close-voice chords.
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