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Originally Posted by joe2758
1. With the m6 diminished that starts on the 5th of the dominant chord as described above for dominant chords that serve as a tonic or otherwise do not resolve up a fourth ( i.e., when they don't function as a V7 chord). This will produce the dominant #11 sound.
2. With the m6 diminished that starts on the b9 of the dominant chord for dominant chords that do resolve up a fourth ( i.e., when they function as a V7 chord). This will produce the dominant alt sound.
These are general rules. Let your ear be the guide. It's important to learn all the m6 diminished movements all over the neck and apply them in these 2 ways over the dominants. Also experiment with borrowing notes. You will learn more about that from the Kingstone book.
BTW, what Barry Harris workshop book are you referring to?
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07-06-2018 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark M.
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Another cool one I learned from the second workshop book is a major6th chord a whole step below your dominant chord for like a 7sus sound. I keep meaning to use it, but I never do!
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Originally Posted by joe2758
A D E G B
G6/A = A9sus or for those who prefer Em7/A = A9sus
Same basic game as Em7/C = Cma9 or Em7b5/C = C9
Preferences for viewing as a singular extension or a bunch of this over that relationships
or combinations of both.
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Originally Posted by grahambop
G, A, Bb, B, C#, D, E, F, correct? You could spell either G9 or G7#11.
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Originally Posted by Mark M.
Last edited by grahambop; 07-07-2018 at 05:41 AM.
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Originally Posted by grahambop
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Alan’s book also has Dom7b5/dim scales, so you could use those as well.
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Originally Posted by grahambop
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Actually your idea of using Dm6 with a borrowed C# note is interesting, you could borrow it through the whole scale and see what it sounds like over a G7.
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After ruminating about this thread during my bike ride, I am still somewhat confused. I see (now) that there is a separate BH scale for dom b5dim, but from a scalar perspective, b5 and #11 are different. I have always thought of dom #11 sounds as deriving from the melodic minor scale based on the fifth of the dominant chord, or, if applying the BH scale theory, a m6dim scale based on the fifth. By that logic, a dom#11 scale has a natural fifth and a #11, where the BH dom b5dim scale has a b5 and a b6.
Graham, am I analyzing this incorrectly?
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I’m not really a theory hound, to be honest I don’t worry myself too much about rules like that!
I just see the 6/dim scales as a very handy way of covering lots of harmonic movements by basically just learning 2 sets of chords to start with. i.e. maj6/dim and min6/dim.
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You’re going to suffer a lot of confusion by trying to relate all the Barry Harris stuff to common approaches taught today. Nothing wrong with learning both ways, but trying to mesh them together won’t always work seamlessly.
I’ve never seen anything about a #11 or melodic minor in his materials, yet his approach is entirely complete
edit to add: that’s the great part about different approaches is that theyre NOT trhe same and give you different sounds!
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After yesterday's discussion, I started to dig into the dom b5 diminshed chords. It's helpful and interesting to see that the drop 2 chords are symmetrical, with 2 shapes on each string set. They appear in the Appendix of the Kingstone book, but I pasted them in place within the text for better reference:
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Originally Posted by Petimar
Petimar, what is this book you are referring to, and how do I get a copy?
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Originally Posted by Mark M.
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Originally Posted by Mark M.
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another thing...if jot obvious already, the first 4 notes belong to C7, the second half of the scale belongs to Gb7
There’s cool connections everywhere with this stuff
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