Looking for the best book on creating chord movement to use on standards

[targuit]

Don't have one. My son is graduating from high school and will be needing money for college, so we are trying not to spend unless absolutely necessary with this cruddy economic 'recovery'. Frankly, GP007, I just "retired" from the practice of medicine. Still dirt poor with the crappy economy and the corporate takeover of medicine by the pencil pushers and fat cats over the past fifteen years or so. Unfortunately, I know how to do two things pretty well - play guitar and practice medicine. And both pay shit these days. So once I dig myself out from under a mountain of medical charts that need to copied yesterday, I have to make some money. Unlike the Federal Reserve and banksters, I don't think I can just print it up on my computer as a digital entry into my bank account. If I didn't have bad luck, wouldn't have no luck at all... Hmmm... sounds like a lyric for a song.

Matt - Sorry if I misunderstood from your post regarding the two songs. But I'm trying to make nice. Geez! You are one prickly porcupine!

Look, it is not that I object to music theory. I know a helluva lot of music theory, including modes though I really am not exactly sure how to define "modal interchange" even when Reg talks about it his unique style. I am guilty of suggesting that while study of theory is helpful, it is not necessary. One could recur to historical examples like a fellow named Wes something or other, though I think he knew more than he let on. Nonetheless, Wes stands as an example that you don't need to bury your head in a thick music theory book for eons to play jazz. Having said that, I agree that you need a good grounding in theory. The difference lies in whether or not you need to memorize or practice modes, for example. I know what they are. I do not spend time practicing modes because I don't feel I need to at this point. I think my dexterity is pretty good, and I am grounded in major and minor diatonic scales. I also can sit at the piano or my guitar (especially piano with modes) and flesh them out if need be. That is me - not a prescription for everyone else.

And with the superlatives I've expressed regarding Reg's rendition, I certainly feel it is the result of his talent and hard work and dedication. You don't play like that the first year and likely not in the first ten unless you really have it together. Now I recall Reg went to Berkley. I did not. I went to med school. So don't expect Reg to know medicine like I do, nor me to know the depth of theory that he does. But do remember I am classically trained, so I'm not ignorant of things theoretical or technical on the guitar. On the other hand, did you follow what I remarked about his use of certain types of minor seventh voicings? And what I would term "playing behind the chord". Maybe it's much ado about nothing, but I think it is terribly important. Feel free to agree or disagree. It's just a discussion.

And in fact this morning I started to analyze Reg's note choices. Now I'm going to tell you something. Don't get angry with me. But by now, I just look at where he is playing the chords in question - the fret position and the bass notes. Why? Because if I know where someone is playing on the neck in terms of the fret position watching a video, I can 'fill in' the notes and fingering very accurately. So what's the big deal? Well, there are many different ways to voice and finger the same notes whether single note or double stops or more full chords. All I need from a video is to note what fret position the guitarist is playing in to create an accurate transcription. So what I did this morning is simply write down the bass notes of the main chords ( I fill in the 'walking component' component later) and the fret position in the measures using classical style designation above the staff. (VII - seventh fret) Then I focus on the melody line and how it can be played in that position. Melody, bass, and fret position. Then I fill in the rest. Been doing this for a long time now. I don't say it is unique - I'm sure many do exactly what I describe.

And finally if I say that Reg played the essential chords without major subs, that is not a diss. Ever have the experience of listening to some intermediate player butcher a chord progression playing really wrong 'subs"? Drives me crazy. In truth, I did note that Reg plays a Cm7 at one point that is not my chord choice at that juncture but what he is playing sounds fine, and as he said, he doesn't play the diminished chords much as a harmonic preference for other "referential" harmony. I'm fine with that.

So yeah, I will do a transcription of his performance and if Reg is ok with it I'll make it available by e-mail.

Again, I am NOT trying to derail the thread from discussion of min sixth harmonic possibilities and Barry Harris. Just that Reg's video was so nice that I think there is so much to glean for any aspiring or even advanced guitarist. I would love to hear Reg's take on several ballads. I know he likes to blister the tempo, but ballads get the ladies. Or at least they use to...

[destinytot]

Why don't you get a webcam and use that to make videos

Sorry, I didn't realise at the time. As soon as I get home tonight, I'll post another - and make sure my left hand's visible.

[targuit]

I had the same problem when I tried to do a video yesterday with my old Canon point-and- shoot . It ain't a real camcorder for sure. You there Mike? .....Mike?

(I think he has me on ignore ....) See - it can happen to you.

I'm so tech not savvy it hurts. I need to put an avatar picture of myself when I was young and handsome, too. Well....young, anyway....

[guitarplayer007]

Don't have one. My son is graduating from high school and will be needing money for college, so we are trying not to spend unless absolutely necessary with this cruddy economic 'recovery'. Frankly, GP007, I just "retired" from the practice of medicine. Still dirt poor with the crappy economy and the corporate takeover of medicine by the pencil pushers and fat cats over the past fifteen years or so. Unfortunately, I know how to do two things pretty well - play guitar and practice medicine. And both pay shit these days. So once I dig myself out from under a mountain of medical charts that need to copied yesterday, I have to make some money. Unlike the Federal Reserve and banksters, I don't think I can just print it up on my computer as a digital entry into my bank account. If I didn't have bad luck, wouldn't have no luck at all... Hmmm... sounds like a lyric for a song.

Matt - Sorry if I misunderstood from your post regarding the two songs. But I'm trying to make nice. Geez! You are one prickly porcupine!

Look, it is not that I object to music theory. I know a helluva lot of music theory, including modes though I really am not exactly sure how to define "modal interchange" even when Reg talks about it his unique style. I am guilty of suggesting that while study of theory is helpful, it is not necessary. One could recur to historical examples like a fellow named Wes something or other, though I think he knew more than he let on. Nonetheless, Wes stands as an example that you don't need to bury your head in a thick music theory book for eons to play jazz. Having said that, I agree that you need a good grounding in theory. The difference lies in whether or not you need to memorize or practice modes, for example. I know what they are. I do not spend time practicing modes because I don't feel I need to at this point. I think my dexterity is pretty good, and I am grounded in major and minor diatonic scales. I also can sit at the piano or my guitar (especially piano with modes) and flesh them out if need be. That is me - not a prescription for everyone else.

And with the superlatives I've expressed regarding Reg's rendition, I certainly feel it is the result of his talent and hard work and dedication. You don't play like that the first year and likely not in the first ten unless you really have it together. Now I recall Reg went to Berkley. I did not. I went to med school. So don't expect Reg to know medicine like I do, nor me to know the depth of theory that he does. But do remember I am classically trained, so I'm not ignorant of things theoretical or technical on the guitar. On the other hand, did you follow what I remarked about his use of certain types of minor seventh voicings? And what I would term "playing behind the chord". Maybe it's much ado about nothing, but I think it is terribly important. Feel free to agree or disagree. It's just a discussion.

And in fact this morning I started to analyze Reg's note choices. Now I'm going to tell you something. Don't get angry with me. But by now, I just look at where he is playing the chords in question - the fret position and the bass notes. Why? Because if I know where someone is playing on the neck in terms of the fret position watching a video, I can 'fill in' the notes and fingering very accurately. So what's the big deal? Well, there are many different ways to voice and finger the same notes whether single note or double stops or more full chords. All I need from a video is to note what fret position the guitarist is playing in to create an accurate transcription. So what I did this morning is simply write down the bass notes of the main chords ( I fill in the 'walking component' component later) and the fret position in the measures using classical style designation above the staff. (VII - seventh fret) Then I focus on the melody line and how it can be played in that position. Melody, bass, and fret position. Then I fill in the rest. Been doing this for a long time now. I don't say it is unique - I'm sure many do exactly what I describe.

And finally if I say that Reg played the essential chords without major subs, that is not a diss. Ever have the experience of listening to some intermediate player butcher a chord progression playing really wrong 'subs"? Drives me crazy. In truth, I did note that Reg plays a Cm7 at one point that is not my chord choice at that juncture but what he is playing sounds fine, and as he said, he doesn't play the diminished chords much as a harmonic preference for other "referential" harmony. I'm fine with that.

So yeah, I will do a transcription of his performance and if Reg is ok with it I'll make it available by e-mail.

Again, I am NOT trying to derail the thread from discussion of min sixth harmonic possibilities and Barry Harris. Just that Reg's video was so nice that I think there is so much to glean for any aspiring or even advanced guitarist. I would love to hear Reg's take on several ballads. I know he likes to blister the tempo, but ballads get the ladies. Or at least they use to...

Hmmm that's odd, when you put me down in an earlier post you made a point of stating you were in the practice of medicine whatever the F that means and that I lived in my basement...So I guess you're not a DR!!! because you can't afford a FING $50.00 Webcam!!!!!!!!!!!!

[christianm77]

Hmmm.... I feel I video coming on, but tomorrow it will have to be...

[targuit]

GP007 -

Perhaps it has escaped your ken, but I went through My Romance at least halfway to explain the harmonic movement to you. I did so to help you. My comment to which you object was in response to a moderately offensive remark you made to me. I don't know what level of playing ability you have obtained at this point in your life, but I suspect from your comments that you are likely a youngster who is a beginner or at best a beginner- intermediate player. I could be wrong, but why don't you tell us what skills you have or lack at this point?

A certain degree of civility is expected on forums. I am quite civil to others, though occasionally my strongly voiced opinions are misconstrued by those prone to find them personally offensive. But I only respond in kind.

Did you understand the painstaking analysis that I made of My Romance in response to your request?

And if I suspect that you are a relatively young poster, it is due to the immaturity of your tone and posts. Pardon me if I am wrong, and please feel free to correct any misconceptions on my part. In any case my crack to you about "living in your parents' basement" was instigated by the tone of your preceding post in my regard.

I am indeed a physician whose license is valid and active at this time. I closed my practice at end of September. I am sure at a minimum that you are not a physician or you would understand my comments as a professional. I would also surmise that it is likely you do not have children and are not facing the daunting expense of a college education for the most important persons in a parents' life - their children. Only an immature individual of modest responsibilities would respond in your manner.

Good luck, GP 007! You will very likely need it.

PS - It is amusing that you think all physicians are wealthy! LOL! If you want career advice, let me suggest to you becoming the CEO of UnitedHealth Care. Perhaps you know what that is? But of course, you can Google it. The CEO of UHC makes a multimillion dollar annual compensation by skimming off the healthcare premiums your parents likely pay for you. One previous CEO, William McGuire, was forced to resign in 2006 due to the stock options backdating scandal. In the year prior, 2005 and then 2006, his total compensation (salary, stock options exercised and unexercised, benefits and "other" totaled $125 million and $126 million respectively. He had to resign and pay what for his was a pocket change fine because he backdated the award of his stock options to correspond to the lowest value of the stock during the year they were awarded. I suspect this is too complicated for you to comprehend, but the point is even earning over $100 million annually, he felt it necessary to cheat.

Take this as an object lesson in American values. And lack of integrity at the helm. Oh, and btw, of the total healthcare expenditures in the US annually, physician take home is approximately 12%. And doctors like neurosurgeon Ben Carson do make a nice salary. But not comparable to health insurance CEO thieves.

As always in the US, knock off a 7-11 store with a firearm, you go to jail for a few years.
Steal a hundred million with a pen, you run for President.

[guitarplayer007]

I came from the blues world
you can check me in this style for now

[guitarplayer007]

Very nice Destinytot, I will have to examine closer over the next few days!!!! Really nice chord movement on 2nd half!!!!
Ken

[destinytot]

I came from the blues world
you can check me in this style for now

Wow! I enjoyed that - thanks! I think you're highly advantaged by your background and ability in the Blues.

For me, the Blues is the best place to start looking at creating the chord movement common in standards. I think you're at an advantage because you can already play the Blues (not to make too fine a point of it, but I don't think everyone can).

And if you don't mind my saying, I think you're going to be very pleasantly surprised when you see how what's in Alan Kingstone's book can apply to the Blues.

Thanks again for posting the video. I think this forum needs more videos from members. I'm going to make another one tomorrow - this time, on the Blues.

[guitarplayer007]

Thanks Destinytot. ..I appreciate the kind words
Ken

[destinytot]

Thx for making the video Destinytot!!!!

You're very welcome, Ken.

I'm delighted to have been of some assistance. 'Manners maketh man'.

[guitarplayer007]

GP007 -

Perhaps it has escaped your ken, but I went through My Romance at least halfway to explain the harmonic movement to you. I did so to help you. My comment to which you object was in response to a moderately offensive remark you made to me. I don't know what level of playing ability you have obtained at this point in your life, but I suspect from your comments that you are likely a youngster who is a beginner or at best a beginner- intermediate player. I could be wrong, but why don't you tell us what skills you have or lack at this point?

A certain degree of civility is expected on forums. I am quite civil to others, though occasionally my strongly voiced opinions are misconstrued by those prone to find them personally offensive. But I only respond in kind.

Did you understand the painstaking analysis that I made of My Romance in response to your request?

And if I suspect that you are a relatively young poster, it is due to the immaturity of your tone and posts. Pardon me if I am wrong, and please feel free to correct any misconceptions on my part. In any case my crack to you about "living in your parents' basement" was instigated by the tone of your preceding post in my regard.

I am indeed a physician whose license is valid and active at this time. I closed my practice at end of September. I am sure at a minimum that you are not a physician or you would understand my comments as a professional. I would also surmise that it is likely you do not have children and are not facing the daunting expense of a college education for the most important persons in a parents' life - their children. Only an immature individual of modest responsibilities would respond in your manner.

Good luck, GP 007! You will very likely need it.

PS - It is amusing that you think all physicians are wealthy! LOL! If you want career advice, let me suggest to you becoming the CEO of UnitedHealth Care. Perhaps you know what that is? But of course, you can Google it. The CEO of UHC makes a multimillion dollar annual compensation by skimming off the healthcare premiums your parents likely pay for you. One previous CEO, William McGuire, was forced to resign in 2006 due to the stock options backdating scandal. In the year prior, 2005 and then 2006, his total compensation (salary, stock options exercised and unexercised, benefits and "other" totaled $125 million and $126 million respectively. He had to resign and pay what for his was a pocket change fine because he backdated the award of his stock options to correspond to the lowest value of the stock during the year they were awarded. I suspect this is too complicated for you to comprehend, but the point is even earning over $100 million annually, he felt it necessary to cheat.

Take this as an object lesson in American values. And lack of integrity at the helm. Oh, and btw, of the total healthcare expenditures in the US annually, physician take home is approximately 12%. And doctors like neurosurgeon Ben Carson do make a nice salary. But not comparable to health insurance CEO thieves.

As always in the US, knock off a 7-11 store with a firearm, you go to jail for a few years.
Steal a hundred million with a pen, you run for President.

I happen to work in the Stock option field as well as ESPP and Restricted stock..I'm well versed in it!!!!

[guitarplayer007]

But again, you can't afford a $50.00 webcam....do you think that really makes sense when you keep commenting that you're a DR!!!! and had your own practice? Get off your high horse your know better then anyone else because you're a Dr. in fact you might be worse then anyone else

[targuit]

Look, GP. I apologize to you for suggesting you live in your parents' basement. Perhaps working in the financial field you have a basement larger than my house. Of course, the financialization of the US economy and the irresponsible casino approach brought us to the brink of a Depression, while the culprits got away scot free with a taxpayer bailout and no prison terms. Nice work if you can get it.

But you seem quite out of touch with what the major move of corporatism has done to the realm of medicine. I would love to have a real civilized discussion with you about Wall St., the TBTF banks, the increasing concentration of wealth in this country and the disastrous effect of allowing corporations and oligarchs to purchase the best 'democracy' money can buy.

Medicine and its practice are being tainted by the same greed and gluttony that defines Wall St. and the banksters unleashed by the abolition of Glass Steagall. Health insurers, large hospital mergers and their influence on the political class are destroying medicine and the integrity of the system, as third party maggots skim profits off patients and physicians.

This is not the place to discuss these topics, of course, but I am struck by two things. One, you play a pretty good blues guitar. Congratulations. Two, you seem completely insensitive to the economic distress of real people who do not enjoy the corporate subsidies and political influence and favors that FIRE sectors have bought from corrupt Washington. The cost of a college education is enormous these days. And those of us who can sleep with a clear conscience after their days at work are suffering for the gluttony and lack of scruples of the financial class. I'm sure you are a bright individual and perhaps deeper than your response heretofore would suggest.

I just closed my practice because the current destruction of private medicine is driving primary care physicians out of private practice due to Federal and State mandates, health insurer abuse of physicians, and the corporatism of medicine where once again the parasitic management class and pencil pushers are reaping the rewards of their betrayal of principles and integrity. Doing for medicine what they have already done to the Middle Class.

I am not truly "retired". I need to provide for my family. A web cam just is not as important as food, medicine, shelter, and healthcare. Is that clear to you or make any sense?

[guitarplayer007]

Yes the political system in broken in this country and all the politicians are bought...I'm a political junkie but not getting into it here...You might be a nice guy but sometimes you come off as a dick...just saying....
So lets ends this now.
Did you see the video I posted? I few posts up from here, yes its only blues....

[targuit]

Fine with me and yes, you play the blues with real flair. But I would appreciate your appraisal - defense, condemnation, thoughtful insight, whatever - into the ethics and the effects on the country of the financialization of our economy. What do you see as the net outcomes? Do you think the FIRE sector has been a net positive or negative overall? And should that financial services sector bear any responsibility and reparations for the damage they have wrought?

Even Warren Buffett has characterized much of what the FIRE sector has thrived upon with derivatives, CDSs, and the profligate casino behavior as WMDs - do you agree or disagree?

I will desist from discussing this topic here, but I would like to hear where you are coming from. Then I would also like to hear about your preferences in blues and what you think about blues in the context of jazz.

Dicks come in many forms, don't they? Upton Sinclair has some choice words in this regard.
It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.

[guitarplayer007]

I suppose there wasn't enough over sight which created this problem and this problem didn't happen overnight, it's been decades in the making.... But I don't want to discuss politics here or the financial system...I can almost see Wall street from where I work
Ken

[targuit]

Nice evasive non-response. Perhaps it goes with the job criteria. How is your conscience on these matters?

Anyway, want to talk about the blues? I am a fan of Coco Montoya. BB King, too. Not so keen on some of Joe Bonamassa and some of the new guys. Of course, I grew up with Kenny Burrell and the jazzy blues guys. Herb Ellis was cool, too.

[guitarplayer007]

Not evasive, just not talking about that BS on a jazz forum, and truthfully I don't make policy...I'm just another worker bee in the machine. Have you heard of Roy Buchanan? He was amazing!!!!

[targuit]

Roy was good. Who do you like to listen to most these days? Anyone relatively new?

And sorry, but non-response is evasive and makes me uneasy. I realize this is not an economic forum, but a brief response would not cause the earth to spin off its axis.

Btw, did you get anything out of my brief analysis of My Romance? You clearly have the dexterity to play jazz guitar. Did the comments about chordal movement make sense?

[targuit]

That was the last non- musical post I will put up. I thought it is interesting in this bizarre political season. But that is a sound assessment of the garbage thinking on tax policy that has destroyed the Middle Class and yet another reason our country is circling the crapper.

[matt.guitarteacher]

Fine with me and yes, you play the blues with real flair. But I would appreciate your appraisal - defense, condemnation, thoughtful insight, whatever - into the ethics and the effects on the country of the financialization of our economy. What do you see as the net outcomes? Do you think the FIRE sector has been a net positive or negative overall? And should that financial services sector bear any responsibility and reparations for the damage they have wrought?

Even Warren Buffett has characterized much of what the FIRE sector has thrived upon with derivatives, CDSs, and the profligate casino behavior as WMDs - do you agree or disagree?

I will desist from discussing this topic here, but I would like to hear where you are coming from. Then I would also like to hear about your preferences in blues and what you think about blues in the context of jazz.

Dicks come in many forms, don't they? Upton Sinclair has some choice words in this regard.
It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.

Really? For the first time since I've been here, we have full-blown, OT, political threads elsewhere on the forum...and you're going to do a multi-topic OT in this thread as well? How about talking about the changes in the first 4 bars of reg's Body and Soul video or something? Sheesh...

Taking this thread into politics is obnoxious and belligerent. If you're not going to post your playing like you said you would, fine. But don't try to distract from that by going completely off topic.

[matt.guitarteacher]

And sorry, but non-response is evasive and makes me uneasy. I realize this is not an economic forum, but a brief response would not cause the earth to spin off its axis.

Non-responsive and evasive? Like talking about your own abilities like you're something special, promising to post an example, not doing so, and then derailing a thread on chords to politics? You are being a hypocrite as well as a fraud! If you're going to be condescending and snooty, at least do so ON TOPIC!

Leave the politics in the other thread.

[guitarplayer007]

Non-responsive and evasive? Like talking about your own abilities like you're something special, promising to post an example, not doing so, and then derailing a thread on chords to politics? You are being a hypocrite as well as a fraud! If you're going to be condescending and snooty, at least do so ON TOPIC!

Leave the politics in the other thread.

Nice one

[targuit]

Ok, Matt - chill out, Bro'!

Sorry if I don't dance to your tune or timetable. I'm also copying medical records now for my (former) patients. It is more than an obligation - I have to prioritize my time. If I don't get these records out - copied one by one on my Canon copier - I can be in trouble for the delay. I know you don't understand my situation - I don't expect you to understand.

I was "dialoging" with GP007, who like some of the posters here, suggested that it was absurd that a doctor could not afford a $50 webcam to post videos. I won't repeat my response - you can read it for yourself. Perhaps music teachers are rolling in the dough these days. I assure you that primary care docs are not, unless you live in some godforsaken remote area in the Midwest where physicians are scarce. I live in RI - the northeast - where there is a high concentration of physicians. RI recently was named in a study as the second worst place to practice medicine in the country - NY came in first.

So I was explaining to GP007 that I have a son to send to college next year, and I had to close my practice thanks to the influence of Washington policies in league with the corporate consolidation and the rape of healthcare by health insurers. This may be of no interest or consequence to you, but it surely has impacted me as a physician and my family over the past 15 years of near-Depression economic stagnation and decline. In any case, GP007 works in the financial sector, which is largely responsible for the Depression which we are in currently and stagnation that has clobbered the Middle Class, whose income gains are paltry besides the soaring percent increase in the income of the 1%. Especially when our friend, GP007, like others here on this forum, assume that doctors are rolling in dough.

If only we could profit from the ignorance and low IQ of the population in this country, we would be in great financial shape. Or maybe that is the problem - the FIRE financial sector has done just that, escaping accountability and criminal charges for cratering the economy. Perhaps you think posting some videos to teach someone how to play a jazz tune is more important than preventing our economy from circling down the toilet. I don't.

Evasive? How about the evasion of accountability in Washington? In the financial sector on Wall St. and the banking industry? Anyway, I said that was the last post of a political nature. I made the exception to respond to you. Frankly because I don't do personal messaging on this sort of thing.

But let's go back to arguing over inconsequential stuff. After all, ignorance is what keeps those in power safe from retribution and justice. Washington will thank you.