Looking for the best book on creating chord movement to use on standards

[AlainJazz]

What the hell is a "magic voicing"? Seems I missed that one in theory class.

I must have missed the post on the "magic voicing". Can someone point me to it or explain what is meant by this?

[55bar]

I must have missed the post on the "magic voicing". Can someone point me to it or explain what is meant by this?

My post at 550.

Wish I'd never mentioned it tbh. I don't call it a magic or "secret" chord I just think of it as a voicing that helps me see melodic minor on the guitar more easily. And that's only because I play around arpeggios and chord shapes.

No magic, or secret, and still took A LOT of hard work and practice to understand WHERE it can be used, but once the penny dropped it was invaluable.

The most use I got from this voicing was thinking of it as a -7b5 but replacing the b3 with the 11.

If you watch the F blues I put up I use the shape a few times approaching chord 4.

Hope this helps



Ps. I missed the 6th use in that example EbM7#11

[guitarplayer007]

Found a lot of good chord movement classes on Mikes master class
Going to try Jamie Taylors class.
Ken

[docbop]

Found a lot of good chord movement classes on Mikes master class
Going to try Jamie Taylors class.
Ken

Check Steve Herberman's classes he's got everything covered. Juampy Juarez classes are cool after you listen long enough to get a handle on his accent. <grin>

[guitarplayer007]

Check Steve Herberman's classes he's got everything covered. Juampy Juarez classes are cool after you listen long enough to get a handle on his accent. <grin>

Thx I saw Steve's as well, he actually has one called Chord movement!!!
Ken

[docbop]

Thx I saw Steve's as well, he actually has one called Chord movement!!!
Ken

Herberman's classes are very good he's a Berklee grad and studied with Ted Greene and others, he really knows his stuff. He teaches via skype too.

[guitarplayer007]

Herberman's classes are very good he's a Berklee grad and studied with Ted Greene and others, he really knows his stuff. He teaches via skype too.

Thx Doc, maybe I'll try his first then

[Jonah]

So here's what I'm working on from Barry Greene. Plenty of movement (I think) but not really any Barry Harris material, sort of what I'm hoping is along the right lines for what Reg is talking about...

Your playing sounds very natural... even if you learnt sounds like your own...


By the way.. I think most of it could be played with BH approach too... as I can see so far his idea is to make kind of thoroughout concept... he is based on traditional functional realtions in general but just re-organized it in his way...

The fact that he is usind 6th and dim chords does not mean that you cannot play other chords... you just think in 6th and dim (or rather you're about these scales)..

chord diagrams in Alan's book is just one way to treat it,,,

you can drop out voices ... you can superimpose... after all you may seem not to play 6th or dim at all but you keep meaning the relations based on it behind...

I think voice leading would be a bit different - probably less strictly parallel movement and obvious ii-v moves.. but in general it could be played


PS
By the way one of the point... in Alan's book there's no distinguishing of superimpostition - though in many cases where he says sub it seems that it's supposed to be superimposed

[55bar]

Your playing sounds very natural... even if you learnt sounds like your own...


By the way.. I think most of it could be played with BH approach too... as I can see so far his idea is to make kind of thoroughout concept... he is based on traditional functional realtions in general but just re-organized it in his way...

The fact that he is usind 6th and dim chords does not mean that you cannot play other chords... you just think in 6th and dim (or rather you're about these scales)..

chord diagrams in Alan's book is just one way to treat it,,,

you can drop out voices ... you can superimpose... after all you may seem not to play 6th or dim at all but you keep meaning the relations based on it behind...

I think voice leading would be a bit different - probably less strictly parallel movement and obvious ii-v moves.. but in general it could be played


PS
By the way one of the point... in Alan's book there's no distinguishing of superimpostition - though in many cases where he says sub it seems that it's supposed to be superimposed

Thanks Jonah,

I have to be honest, I've looked at the BH approach and liked the idea but the actual examples I heard aren't really my cup of tea, not sure why think it's the symmetricalness of some of the progressions. Maybe it's my ear!

I much prefer listening to Reg on his YouTube Chanel he goes through a blues in one example THAT is what I want to sound like!

He should be charging for this stuff, by far the most groove filled comping I've heard on line. The softly as in a morning sunrise lesson is the simplest way I found to understand all this stuff about movement.

[Jonah]

I have to be honest, I've looked at the BH approach and liked the idea but the actual examples I heard aren't really my cup of tea, not sure why think it's the symmetricalness of some of the progressions. Maybe it's my ear!

Frankly speaking I have not heard the examples

I was not going to get into it truely.. but once I started thanks to this thread - I decided to through completely.. to see how it will come out when you feel comfortable in this realtaions from inside..

I found kind of fun in it...

I much prefer listening to Reg on his YouTube Chanel he goes through a blues in one example THAT is what I want to sound like!

He should be charging for this stuff, by far the most groove filled comping I've heard on line. The softly as in a morning sunrise lesson is the simplest way I found to understand all this stuff about movement.

I am extremely self-assured usually - and I always think that I really know what i am talking about... but Reg did and said some things so convincingly that he just pushed into another way of hearing... I suddenly found myself on the other side, into another world... that's much more taht any method or book could give...

I can actually name only 4 people in all about whom I can say that I really learnt something from them (not only music I mean)... meaning they taught me to see things from absolutely different perspetive... and Reg's one of them

(and at the same time - note that the way Reg plays usually is really far from what I feel like))

[55bar]

Frankly speaking I have not heard the examples

I was not going to get into it truely.. but once I started thanks to this thread - I decided to through completely.. to see how it will come out when you feel comfortable in this realtaions from inside..

I found kind of fun in it...




I am extremely self-assured usually - and I always think that I really know what i am talking about... but Reg did and said some things so convincingly that he just pushed into another way of hearing... I suddenly found myself on the other side, into another world... that's much more taht any method or book could give...

I can actually name only 4 people in all about whom I can say that I really learnt something from them (not only music I mean)... meaning they taught me to see things from absolutely different perspetive... and Reg's one of them

(and at the same time - note that the way Reg plays usually is really far from what I feel like))

Agree 100% Reg from what I gather is a pro and this stuff is "bullet proof" gig hardened material, not honed all in the practice room (I'm sure he will correct me if he reads this)

Even if it's not what you want to sound like where it comes from is where it's at!

[grahambop]

your point is well taken, you would definitely need to be careful using the A from Dm6 - however, it does resolve by 1/2 step to the 5 of EB6.

I thought of another one last night. Say you are playing a ii-V i.e. Cm to F7, so you play Cm7, then Cdim (to replace F7 alt), you could then go up the maj6 scale starting from the Cdim, all on the F7. So it's the reverse of normal, i.e. you start on Diminished as the 'strong' chord then put the maj6 chords as the in-between ones. Seems to work quite well if you use Cdim, Db6, Cdim, Db6 in my example.

[AlainJazz]

My post at 550.

Wish I'd never mentioned it tbh. I don't call it a magic or "secret" chord I just think of it as a voicing that helps me see melodic minor on the guitar more easily. And that's only because I play around arpeggios and chord shapes.

No magic, or secret, and still took A LOT of hard work and practice to understand WHERE it can be used, but once the penny dropped it was invaluable.

The most use I got from this voicing was thinking of it as a -7b5 but replacing the b3 with the 11.

If you watch the F blues I put up I use the shape a few times approaching chord 4.

Hope this helps



Ps. I missed the 6th use in that example EbM7#11

Thanks very much!

[destinytot]

The softly as in a morning sunrise lesson is the simplest way I found to understand all this stuff about movement.

Thanks for the tip!

[55bar]

Thanks for the tip!

That's what she said...

[destinytot]

That's what she said...

I'll resist temptation and leave that one well alone...

[guitarplayer007]

Tried the Tony Caprio from Mikes Masterclass, not worth admission.....I mean when your supposed to be teaching something that people pay for and you go a millions miles an hour and there's no real PDF ....its just not worth it. But Mike did me a solid and gave me another video for free
Ken

[docbop]

Tried the Tony Caprio from Mikes Masterclass, not worth admission.....I mean when your supposed to be teaching something that people pay for and you go a millions miles an hour and there's no real PDF ....its just not worth it. But Mike did me a solid and gave me another video for free
Ken

I told you Steve Herberman is the man there, just look at the size of his list of classes that's because people like them and want more.

[guitarplayer007]

I told you Steve Herberman is the man there, just look at the size of his list of classes that's because people like them and want more.

Yup!!!!

[guitarplayer007]

Decided to rejoin Barry Greene's site, he's an amazing player..Plus all his lessons pretty much deal with comping and chord movement...but you have to take notes when you watch his stuff which adds a lot of extra time to learning process
Ken

[MarkRhodes]

Decided to rejoin Barry Greene's site, he's an amazing player..Plus all his lessons pretty much deal with comping and chord movement...but you have to take notes when you watch his stuff which adds a lot of extra time to learning process
Ken

Isn't Richie Zellon keeping you busy enough? ;o)

[55bar]

Decided to rejoin Barry Greene's site, he's an amazing player..Plus all his lessons pretty much deal with comping and chord movement...but you have to take notes when you watch his stuff which adds a lot of extra time to learning process
Ken

He transcribes all his stuff from the lessons and puts them up as PDF on Dropbox, you can now also loop slowdown and rewind the videos.

Plus taking notes is all part of the learning process, I find that you really have to just understand the concept then apply it to tunes. My advice for what it's worth is get the "basics" lessons and nail it, then move into the chord melody or tunes folders and spend a few months on one standard.

The "five position study" on "TWNBAY" is one of the best lessons on that site. Invaluable.

Enjoy 007

[guitarplayer007]

Isn't Richie Zellon keeping you busy enough? ;o)

Yes but I need to be able to play more then single line improv
Ken

[guitarplayer007]

He transcribes all his stuff from the lessons and puts them up as PDF on Dropbox, you can now also loop slowdown and rewind the videos.

Plus taking notes is all part of the learning process, I find that you really have to just understand the concept then apply it to tunes. My advice for what it's worth is get the "basics" lessons and nail it, then move into the chord melody or tunes folders and spend a few months on one standard.

The "five position study" on "TWNBAY" is one of the best lessons on that site. Invaluable.

Enjoy 007

Hey 55Bar,

Yeah i used to belong to site for about 6 months, but didn't really use it correctly...This time going to watch all the different vids on comping and take notes and apply to tunes like you said.
ken

[55bar]

Hey 55Bar,

Yeah i used to belong to site for about 6 months, but didn't really use it correctly...This time going to watch all the different vids on comping and take notes and apply to tunes like you said.
ken

I seriously recommend the "5 position study" I posted some videos of me playing "there will never be another you"

In the "name the standard" or something like that thread.

I'd been working off that one video for a month, if you put the work in on that I can guarantee the rest of the stuff on the site will make total sense.

Focus your attention on "just one thing"

The rewards will be worth it.