Rootless voicings for easy comping

[Boston Joe]

Please forgive me if this is old territory, but this is something I learned a few years back when I took a master class with a guy named Steve Erquiaga. Basically, it's a way to take one simple shape, and work a bunch of variations on it to create a whole bunch of very useful chords. The key is in recognizing that each of the voicing could be several different chords depending on where you think of the root as being.

(Note: although I refer to these voicings as "rootless", some of them do contain the root note, depending on how you look at the chord. However, if you look at the chord a different way, that "root note" becomes something else).

Here goes:

Start with this voicing


—-
—-
-3-
-5-
-5-
-5-


If the root is F, it’s FMaj7
If the rood it D, it’s a D-9


Now drop the G string one fret.


—-
—-
-3-
-4-
-5-
-5-


If the root is G, it’s a G13.
If the root is Db, it’s a Db7#5#9
If the root is F, it’s FMaj7#11


Now lower the top two strings by a fret:


—-
—-
-3-
-4-
-4-
-4-


If the root is G, it’s a G7#5b9
If the root is Db, its a Db9
If the root is D, it's a D7alt
If the root is F, it’s F-7b5


Now lower the D string one fret:


—-
—-
-3-
-3-
-5-
-5-


If the root is G, it’s G-7(9,13)


Now raise the bottom two strings one fret:


—-
—-
-4-
-4-
-5-
-5-


Now you’ve got a quartile voicing that could be:


C7sus4
G-7(b9,b13)
AMaj7(9,13)
DMaj7(9,13)

There's a lot more you can do with this idea, but the point is that you can do a lot just by varying one basic chord shape. Plus, all these voicings are super easy to finger. I really like combining some of the regular voicings with the quartile voicings. I also like keeping this stuff on the top four strings, so as to stay out of the bass player's way, but you can also use other string sets. They don't usually fall under the fingers quite as nicely as the top four strings do, but there's some useful stuff in there.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Yeah, rootless isn't the right term. Maybe "upper voicings"/"stay out of the bassist way"? And if you are assuming a bassist, you can skip the root and 5th and concentrate on playing the 3rd+7th plus upper notes.

Aside: I'm kind of a notation guy and I like to see screen real estate used well. If you take your notation:

—-
—-
-3-
-5-
-5-
-5-

And turn it sideways: xx3555, you'll find it easier to type and fit into sentences. It's the standard 'round here.

[Boston Joe]

I prefer the term "rootless" because it emphasizes the fact that each fingering can be a different chord depending on where you conceptualize the root being. Maybe "variable root" would be better, but "upper voicing" kind of implies that you can't do it lower, which you can.

As far as the notational issue, I like the vertical because it gives me a better visual. Apologies if all the scrolling is too onerous.

[cosmic gumbo]

As far as the notational issue, I like the vertical because it gives me a better visual.

It's still ass backwards compared to standard guitar tab, very confusing....

[Boston Joe]

I think standard tab is upside down. When I look at the guitar, the higher strings are closer to the floor.

[Reg]

Hey Joe, I know Steve, haven't seen him in a while, is he still at Berkekey jazz school.

I always enjoy the concept... I tend to hear those voicings as very neutral, I sometimes use the basic shape for voicing lead lines, but they typically don't create great harmonic grooves...

Your notations fine, wouldn't really want to sight read it, but I've had to sight read worse.

Would be cool to hear your usage or examples of the shapes being used in some type of context.
thanks

[Boston Joe]

Hey Reg,

I don't know if Steve is at Berklee or not. I haven't heard any of my Berklee friends mention him, so I'd guess not. I took the master class at a Jamie Abersold workshop in Kentucky.

OK, a good example of a usage would be a II-V-I where do do something like this:

--- --- ---
--- --- ---
-3- -3- -2-
-5- -4- -2-
-5- -4- -3-
-5- -4- -3-

Dm9 - G7b9b13 - CMa7(6/9)

Or:

--- --- ---
--- --- ---
-3- -3- -5-
-5- -4- -5-
-5- -4- -5-
-5- -6- -7-

Dm9 - G7(#9b13) - CM7

One gives you chromatic motion down, and the other gives you chromatic motion up.

[Reg]

Hey Joe thanks... yea I use those voicings all the time, just usually play the full voicing and only bring out what's needed.

So I generally use those and others to help give me options to play lead lines which imply standard approach chord patterns... So there's no maj 7 in the C6/9, so when using chord pattern to create harmonic motion with a groove feel, you have options for use of more subs etc...

Here's a standard lead line with II V I (VI) chord pattern


D-9 ........X 5 3 5 5 X

D-11.......X X 3 5 5 3

Db13......X X 3 4 4 6

Db9#11..X X 3 4 4 3

G7b13....3 X 3 4 4 X

C6/9.......X 3 2 2 3 X

add an altered V of II ...5 X 5 6 6 X or X X 5 6 6 8... A7alt to get back to Dmin...

then...

D-9..........X 5 3 5 5 X

D-11........X X 3 5 5 3

Db13........X X 3 4 4 6

Db9..........X X 9 8 6 9

G7#9b13..X 10 9 10 11 11

Cmaj7......X X 10 12 12 12

If you want to get back... to Dmin... X 12 11 12 13 13 or whatever voicing of A7alt that covers the lead line note you want.

The trick is being able to play these voicing in two bar phrases... ll: D- / G7 / l Cma / A7 :ll at med/slow swing mm160 and grooving...

Yea I was referring the the Jazz School in Berkeley Ca. , I know I subbed for him last year... had some health issues, but haven't seen him since.

[Boston Joe]

Yea I was referring the the Jazz School in Berkeley Ca. , I know I subbed for him last year... had some health issues, but haven't seen him since.

Oh, okay. Hope he's alright. That two-hour class made a huge impact on me.

[Vladan]

Db13......X X 3 4 4 6

Db9#11..X X 3 4 4 3

G7b13....3 X 3 4 4 X
...
add an altered V of II ...5 X 5 6 6 X

Reg, do you play above quoted chords with 1st finger bar on the 3rd fret + 2nd and 3rd finger, with pinkie moving arround as needed,
like

............ 1....1 2 3 1
G7b13....3 X 3 4 4 X

or you go for 4 finger grips, like

............ 1... 2 3 4 ....
G7b13....3 X 3 4 4 X

[nado64]

I prefer organize the chord positions by genre.
Like this, I know where to put my fingers if I want to move the top note on a same chord.

ex :

D dorian G mixolydian C ionian
1-3-5-8-10-12-13- 3-5-7-.. 3-5-7-..
1-5-6-8-10-10-13- 5-5-6-.. 3-5-5-..
2-5-5-7-10-10-12- 4-4-7-.. 2-4-7-..
2-3-5-7-10-10-12- 3-3-7-.. 2-5-5-..
----------------- ------.. ------..
----------------- ------.. ------..

example on a II - V - I (D- G7 C):

1-3-5-8-|-7-5-7-5-|-3-5-8-7-|-..
1-5-6-8-|-6-3-6-5-|-3-5-8-5-|-..
2-5-5-7-|-7-4-7-4-|-2-4-7-7-|-..
2-3-5-7-|-7-3-7-3-|-2-5-7-5-|-..
--------|---------|---------|-..
--------|---------|---------|-..

[Reg]

Reg, do you play above quoted chords with 1st finger bar on the 3rd fret + 2nd and 3rd finger, with pinkie moving arround as needed,
like


or you go for 4 finger grips, like

Hey Vladan... the second. I always want to be able to accent lead lines, barring doesn't work as well for me personally.

[Reg]

Hey nado64... yea that works... but I generally work from the top note down... the top or lead note is most important personally. I play a lead line and voice changes below.

You really like the 4ths... would be cool to hear you playing an example, I played through, and get the organization... but the results.... the lead line ends up very straight... almost like there isn't one. But I'm guessing it's from my playing, I'll try again.

[nado64]

Yeah!! I really like the sound of the 4ths.

My input was overall about the organisation.
The OP talks about "with his position, I can play this chord or this chord".
For me, it's easier to manage when I think : "with this chord, I can play this position or this position."

[Boston Joe]

The OP talks about "with his position, I can play this chord or this chord".
For me, it's easier to manage when I think : "with this chord, I can play this position or this position."

Well, once you get the hang of it it ends up being both. The main point I was trying to make is that you can take one simple fingering, and make it work as any number of chords. Once you get a few of these grips under your fingers, and learn how to sub out notes (especially the top note), you get a lot of flexibility moving around the fretboard.

[nado64]

Well, once you get the hang of it it ends up being both. The main point I was trying to make is that you can take one simple fingering, and make it work as any number of chords. Once you get a few of these grips under your fingers, and learn how to sub out notes (especially the top note), you get a lot of flexibility moving around the fretboard.

The reflection on the original post is very interesting, it's important to know the relation between each things, particulary on the fretboard.

... would be cool to hear you playing an example,...

The guitar is plugged straight to the sound card, so sorry for the sound.
Fm-Bb7-Ebmaj7

[matt.guitarteacher]

I think standard tab is upside down. When I look at the guitar, the higher strings are closer to the floor.

Actually, I've always thought the same thing, but for whatever reason it's the standard. I always tell students to put the page on they're lap to start. It makes more sense and it's not upside-down.

It's fine to do whatever you want for personal study, but if you're speaking to the rest of the world it's helpful to speak the same language. If you write your text backwards most people won't even take the time to read it. You'll get a degree of that when breaking with notational conventions as well. I'm sure that you want people to judge the content and not dismiss it merely because of the notation.

I would strongly consider "translating" on the output end at the very least.

[Boston Joe]

Would be cool to hear your usage or examples of the shapes being used in some type of context.
thanks

Here's a chorus of The Days of Wine and Roses:

[Vladan]

Thanks Reg.

I find I can mowe faster from chord to chord with 4 finger grips, but going

from: Db13......X X 3 4 4 6
to: Db9#11..X X 3 4 4 3
If I play that without full bar, there's no chance I can make to play 4 fingered G7b13....3 X 3 4 4 X in time

However, if I play with barr, I have all 3 chords at once, much easier to play them in time, while I could still add something with pinkie on G if I manage to findwhat to add.

When you say accenting the line, I guess it boils down to harmonizing scale of the moment (and some extensions)?
I'm not good enough to do that with 4 note chords. Usually I go with 3, or 2 notes (in 5ths/ 4ths and 3rds/ 6ths + one more), guess you understand what I'm saying.

[Reg]

The reflection on the original post is very interesting, it's important to know the relation between each things, particulary on the fretboard.



The guitar is plugged straight to the sound card, so sorry for the sound.
Fm-Bb7-Ebmaj7

Thanks nado64... yea you sound good... The voicings personally are generally for effect... used occasionally. They're so non descriptive... Even when used creatively... the result isn't that great. Where as they can be used to accent or set up standard comping.

Again thanks for posting, I could hear how you can use them, Reg

[Reg]

Here's a chorus of The Days of Wine and Roses:

Thanks Joe... you sound like good player, would dig hearing more.

But the voicings have that non descriptive sound. Again too neutral or bland... better for approaching target chords. I understand they work great for fingerings etc.. but the point is the sound. They tend to work better occasionally like using a line cliche's they help set up.

Again thanks for posting example... you sound like you would be great contributor for many other examples... jump in and post more.
Thanks Reg

[Boston Joe]

But the voicings have that non descriptive sound. Again too neutral or bland... better for approaching target chords. I understand they work great for fingerings etc.. but the point is the sound. They tend to work better occasionally like using a line cliche's they help set up.

Hi Reg,

Thanks for the kind words. I'm a little confused by what you're saying here. I was trying to keep the chords in the example I posted pretty close to the written chords in the tune. Could you give an example of what you're talking about. Also, by no means am I suggesting that this be the ONLY approach one uses. Just a thing to put in the toolbox.

Joe

[nado64]

A good example to use the voicings, Billy Bauer behind Lee Konitz :

[Vladan]

Reg, sorry to bother You,

is this the tempo you are talking about, or this is slowed down for teaching purposes?

[Cunamara]

These kinds of chords are a lot of what Ed Bickert does.