Just Got Tim Lerch's "Art of Two Note Accompaniment"

[Liarspoker]

ATTYA was mentioned in another post. I was wondering if you would be able to (use ATTYA for example) play a tune using this method. I'm not asking you do break it down since you have the master class, but was wanting to hear it in action before committing. There is so much stuff out there its a little overwhelming at times.

I've started applying it to my set list straight away. The first song I am tackling is Here's That Rainy Day and sounds good so far although I'll be asking Tim how I can play it better when I take a lesson from him in two weeks time.

edh - I guess that you could use a pick for the bass strings and use your fingers for the melody strings. Maybe such an approach could make the bass strings too loud though. Tim will probably give you a better answer.

[nado64]

Question for those of you working with Tim Lerch's 2-note comping material.
I am working on my walking bass / comp skills, focusing on "All The Things You Are" and "Just Friends."
Would working with Tim's material be difficult to master at the same time?

IMO, Walking bass is to play without a bassist. The Tim's material is to play with a bassist.
Of course, depending of your motivation and your time, but I'll finish the working on the the walking bass / comp before to work the Tim's masterclass.

ATTYA was mentioned in another post. I was wondering if you would be able to (use ATTYA for example) play a tune using this method. I'm not asking you do break it down since you have the master class, but was wanting to hear it in action before committing. There is so much stuff out there its a little overwhelming at times.

Yes, you can play a tune using this method.
This method is just to play a chord with an improvised or a composed melody.
You can also use this method to comp a solist. Just use the third/seventh pair and add some top notes to create a voice leading.
In the class, there are an example on a 32 bars progression.

Can you use this approach with a pick? Or is it all fingers?

IMO, all fingers.
If you use a pick, right hand, you'll use three fingers (thumb, index finger and middle finger) to play the chord and two fingers to play the melody, so your dexterity between the ring finger and the little finger will need to be more than perfect.

But if you strum the dyad, maybe it's possible.

edit : after a try, you can use a pick.

[targuit]

Just an observation about the material presented by Tim Lerch, whom I had never heard play before tonight. I am impressed by his musicianship and technical mastery on the guitar as well as his tone. I listened to several of his videos including an interview with Pat Hicks regarding his experience at GIT and afterwards as a professional musician and teacher. Impressive approach both with the instrument as well as his approach regarding the Ego falling away in deference to the music. A lesson I have learned and commented about on the forum regarding the need to let the subconscious mind take the wheel and become a 'listener' to the music and the 'voice' within you. A surrender of the Ego to become the vessel of the music like becoming one with it. Very interesting reflections about the musical journey.

Great musicianship and technique. As an aside, I thought that Tim Lerch Signature guitar he reviews in one of his videos sounded wonderful in his hands. Tim sounds comfortable not only with jazz but also the blues and a bit of country on the side.

Jay

[MarkRhodes]

Can you use this approach with a pick? Or is it all fingers?

That's a great question.
I do some things fingerstyle but I mostly use a pick.

[NSJ]

You can hybrid pick it. obviously, in a three note voicing, the p and i would hold the pick, and the m, a, and pinky are available for the other two notes.

One great application that Tim alludes to is a pianistic technique called locked hands or block chords. I think that Tim talks about Bill Evans in this context, but I believe the concept first originated with George shearing. Basically, the piano player plays a chord inversion with the right hand, and doubles the top note from an octave or two octave distance with the left hand. The critical concept that Tim utilizes is the fact that all notes have the same rhythmic value, hence the term "locked hands".

it is possible to double the melody note from an octave or two octaves on the guitar. Obviously it would be a very modified aspect of the original piano technique, given the guitars limitations. If you double the top a note with a note two octaves below, you are basically playing notes on the first and six string. You can add the guide tones for the particular chord along with these two notes, and these guide tones will be located on the fourth and third string. In this instance, it is best to think chord by chord and not diatonically via a key center. With the two octave doubling, I have found the only melody notes that are technically possible are the root, flat nine, nine, and sharp nine. (R. b9, 9 and #9). You can also double note from an octave below and use the guide tones as well. Fun stuff. Obviously this can only be done via fingerpicking.

[Jonzo]

Does anyone know if this material would be helpful for a mandolinist or violinist (P5 tuning)? You can only really play 2 note chords on the fiddle. There is not a lot of jazz material for mandolin or fiddle, but sometimes guitar concepts can be adapted.

I know the fingerings themselves would not adapt. I am thinking more about the theory.

[DRS]

Does anyone know if this material would be helpful for a mandolinist or violinist (P5 tuning)? You can only really play 2 note chords on the fiddle. There is not a lot of jazz material for mandolin or fiddle, but sometimes guitar concepts can be adapted.

I know the fingerings themselves would not adapt. I am thinking more about the theory.

The theory is the same for every instrument using 12 tone music - essentially the 3rd or minor third and the 7th or dominant 7th. Melody on top.

[TLerch]

Hey Guys,
I thought that since there were quite a few questions id make a little private video for the participants in this thread.

all the best
Tim

[edh]

Tim thank you very much for this. I appreciate the time and effort that it took to make a video specifically for this forum.

[MarkRhodes]

Thanks, Tim! I really appreciate you taking the time to do this. I'm definitely getting this. Lots to learn and explore. And you come across as such a kind, patient guy, which always helps struggling-but-dedicated students! ;o)

[dingusmingus]

Thanks so much, Tim. Very informative. I'll be picking up the video for sure.

[DRS]

Cool, thanks, Tim.

[edh]

Tim I have a question. It has been answered here(and I appreciate it), but I would like to here it from the "horses mouth". Can you use your technique using a pick(hybrid method)?

Thanks
edh

P.S. Please no offense to those that have taken the time to answer my question. I just want to get a confirmation from Tim before I purchase the video.

[TLerch]

Hi EDH,
yes you can do much with a pick as long as you can use at least one extra finger to pluck out melody notes. you might not get the subtle dynamics but certainly with hybrid picking much can be accomplished. i wouldn't be surprised if someone with very good picking techniques could even do a lot in this approach with just the pick and some clever string skipping.
all the best
Tim

[Melodic Dreamer]

Hey Melodic,
here is the trailer

I'm in a time crunch this week so i cant do any vids etc to play ATTYA in this approach but it certainly can be done.

all the best Tim

Thank you for the link.

[Jazzpunk]

I've been working through some of Tim's Ted Greene lessons on youtube. Great playing and really great teacher.

I'll be working through his JGS vids after I work on the walking bass lesson he has on youtube (just purchased the chord sheets).

Maybe it's the new tele I picked up but I'm really enjoying this style of playing lately!

[edh]

Thanks for answering my question Tim. And again thanks to those who also responded to my question.

edh

[MarkRhodes]

Downloaded it today. Great stuff, Tim. Thanks. This is practical and tuneful---a potent combination! ;o)

[MarkRhodes]

I am working on Tim's "2-Note Accompaniment" material fingerstyle, though I will also want to do some of that with a pick too.

[Jazzpunk]

I am working on Tim's "2-Note Accompaniment" material fingerstyle, though I will also want to do some of that with a pick too.

+1

Trying to get the most out of this approach (especially the Ted Greene voicings) has inspired me to get my pinky finger up to snuff. Prior to this I mainly used my middle and ring fingers when hybrid picking so plenty of work ahead!

[MarkRhodes]

+1

Trying to get the most out of this approach (especially the Ted Greene voicings) has inspired me to get my pinky finger up to snuff. Prior to this I mainly used my middle and ring fingers when hybrid picking so plenty of work ahead!

Same here---my right hand pinky has not seen a lot of action in my playing career (other than being planted on the pickguard when I Benson pick.)

[TLerch]

Hi guys, here is a new video of my improvisation on My Foolish Heart using some of the types of devices I teach in The Art Of Two Note Accompaniment master class. enjoy

all the best
Tim

[MarkRhodes]

Hi guys, here is a new video of my improvisation on My Foolish Heart using some of the types of devices I teach in The Art Of Two Note Accompaniment master class. enjoy

Thanks, Tim! That's great stuff. I got the "2-Note Accompaniment" Master Class and am enjoying it. (Also your walking bass / comp of "Sweet Lorraine." Such a fun tune.)

[edh]

Tim, that was beautiful! This class is definitely on my "to-get" list. I'm putting it on high priority.
Is this tune on one of the Master Class instructional dvds?

Thanks for the vid.

[NSJ]

I was giving this lesson further thought in terms of how I used it. I don't know if anyone will find this useful, but Tim's lesson made me think of the critical issue of fingerboard knowledge and proper organizational principles thereto.

There is a fundamental fingerboard-music principle of finding all the the things one many need (chords-scales-arpeggi) more or less in one place, without significant movement or jumping around. One of the musical precepts of this is proper voice leading. Beyond that, thinking of these musical elements "more or less in simple place" means diving the fingerboard in three (4 fret distance, a minor 3rd, see, for example, movable diminished chords): frets 1-4, frets 5-8, and frets 9-12. Let's call them Region 1,2 and 3.

You can find a proper two note voicing for each diatonic chord in a given key within each region, ie. within a span of a minor 3rd or 4 frets.

A great progression to practice that is found in many tunes and contains 5 of the 7 diatonic chords in a given key is:

I--iii-vi-ii-V-I.

For example, in the key of Bb, you can find this progression for each two note string set (6 and 5, 5 and 4, 4 and 3) In each of the 3 regions.

String set 6 and 5 = Region 2 from frets 5 through 8
String Set 5 and 4 = Region 1 from open sting to fret 3
String Set 4 and 3 = Region 3 from frets 7 through 10 (also from frets 12-15 on string set 5 and 4)

Further, to derive the IV chord, move down a string set on the I chord. To derive the vii chord, move down two string sets on the I chord. For example, in the key of Bb, the two accompaniment-guide tones for IV chord (Eb) are found the same position as the I chord (5th position), but on string set 5 and 4 (when the 1 chord is on the string set 6 and 5). Finally, the guide tones for the vii chord are found two strings down from the I chord, same position as the I chord. Eg., in Bb, the vii chord (Amb5) is found on string sets 4 and 3.

Thus, all seven diatonic two note chords are possible in a given Region.

finally, if you find yourself two high up on the accompaniment, i.e., the guide tones are on the melody strings (3 and 2 or 2 and 1), why not switch the concept and just play the melody on the bass strings?

Anyway, sorry for the long post. But this has been a very good lesson; isn't it always the case that the best lessons force people like me (the student) to ask further questions?