View Poll Results: What is the best available book on swing comping?
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- 5. You may not vote on this poll
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Charlton Johnson, Swing and Big Band Guitar
4 80.00% -
Paul Howard, Guitar Roots: Swing!
0 0% -
Hal Leonard, Swing Guitar Essentials
0 0% -
Ranger Doug, Rhythm Guitar the Ranger Doug Way
0 0% -
Some Other Title (-please mention it below)
1 20.00%
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I wonder who has done the best (available) job on the basics of swing comping (-rhythm, feel, shapes, inversions, examples).
If you think another book deserves mention, please list it below.
Keep in mind, the focus here is on swing comping, nothing else. Thanks.Last edited by MarkRhodes; 08-16-2014 at 01:50 PM.
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08-16-2014 01:46 PM
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This is a valuable free resource on comping in the Freddie Green style
Basics of Freddie Green Comping
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A little more about our early leader....
Swing and Big Band Guitar: Four-To-The Bar Comping in the Style of Freddie Green: Charlton Johnson: 0073999951479: Amazon.com: Books
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How to Comp by Hal Crook is great for study in general comping, but not swing focused.
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Never read any of those books, just listened. That's all it takes, and a little research.
Though its it's hard to hear Freddie Greene sometimes in many of the Count Bassie recordings due to the size of the orchestra, a particular recording provides and exceptional opportunity to hear Freedie's lines:
Count Basie and the Kansas City Seven,
Another great place is the Freddie green pages
Barry Galbraith's Approach to Rhythm Guitar By Mike Caruso – student and friend of Barry Galbraith
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Originally Posted by TheGrandWazoo
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Here's a nice short vid on our topic. Nicely done.
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I can't say which one is the best since I have not tried them all and I would be guessing. But I can offer a book that was set up very simply for beginners:
All Blues for Jazz Guitar: Comping Styles, Chords and Grooves
All Blues for Jazz Guitar: Comping Styles, Chords & Grooves: Jim Ferguson: 9780786631285: Amazon.com: Books
It has a CD and gives you many different chord progressions that use chords with 3 notes on the top. While not directly aimed at swinging, it has many progressions that lead strongly towards Freddie Greene-type comping. It does not give you a lot of theory but it does give you many progressions that can help you become a Jazz "swinger."
As a sidenote, the "look inside" feature of amazon does not give you a good view of the progressions but apparently, the book is on Scrib'd and 4share for download (but you won't get the CD).
CAUTION: As forum member Jack Z. pointed out, the books on these sites can be downright illegally uploaded. I don't know if Jim Ferguson, the author of the book authorized it for download on these sites. After reading Jack's thread, and considering human nature, I am starting to think a vast majority of the books are there illegally. I can't prove it, however.
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Originally Posted by AlsoRan
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Just for reference, for anybody that might be getting into this style, there was a series of books by Bill McCormick on rhythm playing. I've never used them myself, but I do remember very good reviews back in the late 90's when they first came out. They're available from mpubmusic.com .
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Originally Posted by pubylakeg
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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
The thing I like so much about this book is that Ferguson teaches comping via complete arrangements... a bit like the Ranger Doug book. I think the arrangements are interesting enough, and unique enough to stand as little pieces of music! I doubt you'd want to perform them on stage, but for informal situations - sure, I do it, and folks seem to dig them.
I gotta say, the CD tracks aren't of the best quality. It's Ferguson alone on a big jazz box, low-fi, but if you need to hear the rhythms, they serve that purpose.
(Further, and off topic, the companion book to this one, All Blues Soloing... whoa! A+ SUPERB!)
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Not a book, but definitely worth checking out (looks like it's on sale for about $20, and it's lengthy and TrueFire quality... worth it!) There's as much material here as in most instruction books - maybe more than in some.
Marcy Marxer's "Swinging Rhythm Handbook" - an unlikely name for a video instruction guitar course, I guess, but I like this one. I don't normally like videos, but this one is worth $20 imho, just for Marxer's demonstration of how to play fast tempos, with heavy attack (if desired) - without tensing up.
The chord progressions are many, and she draws on everything from Western swing to jazz and folk. I *love* this stuff!
She plays on a Martin OM flattop and a pink Telecaster, but archtops would fit right in. I wish I could include a clip - she's a master of rhythm styles and has played in swing/jazz bands in the Woodstock area for most of her life. Marcy actually taught me to sing harmony many years ago - a superb, relaxed, charming teacher. Beautiful PDF charts of all the tunes and studies presented -- so many songs and chord studies I couldn't count them. Much to build on for only $20 or so. // Only gripe is they forgot to post the PDF for her GREAT arrangement of Honeysuckle Rose. Fooey! Learn by watching - like the old days. : )
Loren/kj
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Originally Posted by Kojo27
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Re the Johnson "big band" examples: any of you guys noticed how, instead of playing "BOOM-chick" stroke, he plays it "backward" - like a "chick-Boom, chick BOOM, chick-BOOM..." Haha - weird shorthand, but it's the best I can do.
Four-to-the-bar "even" comping is four even downstrokes. Then there's the common variation of playing a downstroke and, rather than damping it with the left hand, letting it ring. Then the "2" or "4" beat is dampened. So the effect is Long-short-Long-short. Make sense?
Johnson, however, dampens the 1 and 3, letting the 2 and 4 ring! I'd never heard this before, and it sounds okay, but is weird to my ears. Here's a good example:
https://app.box.com/s/bpshatgsqhmjop82rm64
Comments, anybody?
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Originally Posted by Kojo27
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Originally Posted by Kojo27
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Originally Posted by monk
Yep, I agree she's got her own way of playing what she plays, but then she's on more records with more artists than I could fit in this window, and her Grammys and Grammy nominations say a good thing or two, I think. Besides the title of the course is "Swinging Rhythm Handbook" -- she never claims to be teaching "true swing rhythm" (whatever that might be - I think she swings like a pendulum do...) She teaches "swinging rhythm." For my taste, Marcy would liven up a small swing band a heck of a lot more than Charlton Johnson would - but then he'd do better in a big band. There are some good ideas in the course, and as I said, at least she shows (something a book can't really do) how to play loose, without tensing up. Worth $20 right there, imo.
The Ranger Doug book is definitely cool, and might be super-cool if it had a CD. God knows he can bang out great rhythm on that big Stromberg - love the guy! The arrangements in that book, though, aren't usually for the songs they seem to be for. For example, "In the Style of Lady Be Good" -- and it isn't Lady Be Good, or even the form of Lady Be Good! If you're already a pretty good musician, it isn't hard to figure out how to rearrange the chords *into* Lady Be Good, but guys just starting out with chord inversions and progressions, song forms, etc., may be often stumped, esp. with no CD, nothing to demonstrate what these sometimes obscure tunes are supposed to sound like.
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Originally Posted by monk
I believe you, Jerome - I know you're a pro. I just haven't listened to enough big bands, I guess. It sounds nice - just strange to my ears, as I'm not used to it.
It is odd that Leavitt doesn't teach this in Modern Method. Actually, he might teach it in Volume 3, which I haven't worked through. If it's in Volume 1 or 2, I guess I just missed it or have forgotten. : )
Loren/KJ
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See Leavitt Vol II pages 16-17.
A good summary of how to articulate your rhythm guitar in 2 or 4 feel.
BL uses the ' sign to imply a "breath" between chords....a release of the LH essentially to
give a nice tight feel. Also he uses - for legato and accent markings.
Of course the assumption is that you know what the sound is you're going for.
Listen to heaps of 30's & 40's big bands that use unamplified rhythm guitar.
One technique he described that I found specially useful was what he called orchestral "2 beat",
where you play an upstroke on the downbeats and a downstroke on the upbeats
it seems ass backward but enables playing at extreme bright tempos without tensing up. [pg 16 & 17 Vol II]
I was stoked when recording a super up tempo piece with a full symphony
orchestra where there were parts for guitar/double bass and drums.
I remembered having learned that strum from Bill Leavitt's book and it worked a treat.
....Locked up that sucker with me hitting on the off beats and the bass on the downbeats.
When we went to the mixing session the composer/conductor,his wife and the concert master
were the only ones who showed up. [The concertmaster was obliged to ha ha]
...and us three in the rhythm section....Why I was buzzed is because the composer dug my rhythm guitar
part so much he mixed it really high in the mix...he was an internationally renowned composer with many
big budget film scores etc to his name and many hits.
We were tighter than the proverbial fish's ass on that track......Toot toot.
Re books...check out Bucky Pizzarelli's "Power Guitar" -Big Band Rhythm Playing [13 Forms Does It All]
Published 1979 Camerica Pub's.....This book contains a lot of sundry comps/chord licks/intro etc too.
This is where I learned the pared down shell voicings...but you probably have that covered already.
I found that and Bucky's "A Touch Of Class" book [also good fingering charts for the fat rhythm chords]
very useful professionally as a player but also for teaching the "guts" of chords to serious students who
inevitably wanted to learn the hip shit but thanked me later for telling them to get this stuff down.
Also, I don't think "Jazz Rhythm Guitar" by Roger Edison [pub Alfred] has been mentioned.
Another good one ....uses progressions to well known songsLast edited by Moonray; 10-06-2014 at 06:05 AM.
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Originally Posted by Moonray
Wow - thanks for all this! I didn't even know Bucky Pizzeria (heh) wrote any books, so I'll put start looking. Never heard of any of the books you listed - so thanks a big lot. Your check will be in your PayPal account. Possibly. : )
The "Orchestral 2 Beat" -- YEAH! I love this thing and you're right - you can FLY doing it. Isn't it the same thing (almost) as a bluegrass mandolin chop? A sort of quiet drag, up, of the pick, on the downbeats, then a BANG downstroke on the upbeats? Seems so to me. I first used it several years ago, while trying to get through Sweet Georgia Brown - someone played it at insane tempo, and it's the only way I could keep up and not wear down. I think I could play all day this way! God bless Bill Leavitt.
Note: above, I was lamenting that Leavitt doesn't (that I know of) teach the stroke that Charlton Johnson teaches, which I found odd, since Monk says it's very common.
Kojo
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Is the 1947 Mel Bay-authored book, "Mel Bay Rhythm Chord System" good, in the opinion of any of you players here?
It's for sale on eBay, apparently still published, which says a lot.
If anyone has the book, and/or has used it, a synopsis/critique would be much appreciated.
Here is the synopsis from eBay:
Commonly referred to as the rhythm guitarist's bible, this innovative book is a system of guitar chord formation which maximizes power voicing while minimizing left-hand movement! Originally written by Mel Bay in 1947, this landmark publication was reissued in its original typesetting in 1973 to become the definitive text on jazz chords in private teaching studios and university jazz guitar departments around the globe. Mr. Bay's practical, analytical approach to the fingerboard produced this comprehensive system for learning full-sounding orchestral jazz guitar chords."
New Mel Bay Rhythm Guitar Chord System by Mel Bay Paperback Book Free Shipping 0871665158 | eBay
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Originally Posted by Kojo27
It's methodical (with diagrams) showing the inversions of many kinds of chords (major, minor, dominant, 6th, augmented, diminished) up and down the neck, with charts of chord etudes for practice (-no CD).
These aren't modern comping voicings (-top four strings) but what are called "orchestral." I often play alone and sing, so I love these chords. Working with these chords, you really learn your way around the neck.
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I bought this book in the mid-70s.
Like a lot of MB's early work there's not a lot of explanation since he wrote it to be used with a teacher.
It clearly lays out in diagram form the four string (6-4-3-2) "orchestral" chords that were the meat and potatoes for a big band guitarist. These shapes also form the basis of the so-called Freddie Green chords when the second string note is omitted.
While the book is short on theory, there are exercises to physically drill the chords and diagrams are used to demonstrate how a major seventh morphs into a minor seventh or how a minor seventh becomes a minor sixth.
While the book doesn't specifically delve into the area of voice leading, it does provide the physical tools necessary to play "walking chords" which can be useful in both big band and small group situations.
As Mark, pointed out, the is no CD but Bill Bay has recorded a DVD to accompany the book. I haven't seen the DVD so I can't comment on it. The sample at the MB website only shows him making the F barre.
Rhythm Guitar Chord System Book/DVD Set - Mel Bay Publications, Inc. : Mel Bay
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Originally Posted by monk
How many guitars and amps have you owned?
Today, 11:04 AM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos