Guitar Comping vs. Piano Comping

[2bornot2bop]

In my eyes each instrument does things the other can't. As they should, they're different instruments.

You'll never hear a rolling chord, ala Gene Harris, repeated on guitar. That's but one example.

The piano 4 to the bar phase was during the teens thru 30's.....Ump-Pah jazz.

[christianm77]

+1 to MattC

Plectrum guitar is percussive. The sound of the pick on strings is an important aspect of the guitar and is sometimes overlooked by guitar players keen to develop a pianist approach who might play more with fingers. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, but it's not what the guitar is uniquely good at, and the guitar has more possibilities than just to be a second rate piano (to play devils advocate.)

Also if there is a piano on the gig, you will be in their way, and they can do what you are trying to do better than you.

Traditionally, in the Freddie Green way, it can function almost as drums. Also Jim Hall on Undercurrents frequently uses straight fours with the guitar turned down. Guitar/piano/bass used to be the default piano trio, not piano/bass/drums, in the 1940s. Tal Farlows playing in this format really shows how far this can go.

This is a good way for guitar to work with piano - percussive rather than playing sustained ringing chords, which the piano can do.

You have to be a very good piano player to get a convincing straight four comp on the piano on the other hand.

Fingerpicking is also a fertile area for exploration, again quite unlike the piano. Two words - Ralph Towner :-)

Pat Metheny helped introduce pop/rock style strumming into jazz.

Harmonics?

Subtle vibrato on chords - neck bending finger vibrato - so much of Bill Frisell's sound is in the fingers - it's funny people think is reverb or echo is actually largely the application of very subtle vibrato to chords. Can't get that on a piano.

Volume swells, perhaps other effects? Again not beyond a keyboardists reach, but this stuff is very natural to a guitar player, and you don't bring any gear other than a few pedals. A rich variety of orchestral colour can be found by changing technique and picking position on the guitar.

[christianm77]

In my eyes each instrument does things the other can't. As they should, they're different instruments.

You'll never hear a rolling chord, ala Gene Harris, repeated on guitar. That's but one example.

The piano 4 to the bar phase was during the teens thru 30's.....Ump-Pah jazz.

Um-pah jazz... No!!!! Fats Waller is not Umpah... IMHO :-P

[teok]

Yep, a master session of a guitar and piano playing together, as well as a top notch jazz album in general.

[christianm77]

Straight fours is associated of course with Big Bands and the swing era, but it was also a common style for guitar players in bebop small groups too.

Jim Hall is simply one of a whole tradition of post war guitarists who cut their teeth and earned money playing rhythm on dance gigs and vocal sessions, and adapted their rhythm playing to small group music.

Chuck Wayne with George Shearing.

Tal Farlow in trio with Eddie Costa?
Here

Check out the change over from lead to rhythm around 1:40 ish. Amazing!

I would go as far to say, that there is a specific post war bop influenced style of straight fours playing - much more legato and ride cymbal like than the 30's rhythm players.

[AndyV]

Check out Bill Evans' uptempo playing on this record:

For my money, this is the BE masterpiece that no one ever mentions. His uptempo playing here is superb.