Using chord patterns to add movement to comping

[sambrooker]

Hello,
I was wondering if anyone on here can tell me anything about using chord patterns when comping to add movement. When I listen to players like benson on his cookbook and uptown records, I hear him playing fast chord patterns up the neck when comping to get to the next chord in the song he never seems to stay on one chord. I am aware of 2-5-1, and the 1-6-2-5 turnaround but I was hoping some of you guys could give me some insight into other chord patterns common for bebop comping, maybe some patterns that connect with each other like benson. I'm sorry to be brief, but maybe you can get more from what I'm trying to ask by listening to bensons comping on this track:

i really appreciate any comments!

[sambrooker]

I would just like to also add that I am also aware of tri-tone subs, and diatonic function subs etc. I just want to understand how to make changes inside in changes like what benson does. I'm not talking strictly blues either, I'm referring to comping on standards too, I just used that track as an example.

[mr. beaumont]

His approach on this track is very similar to what Wes would do during those famous “block chord solos.” Are you familiar with the shapes Wes used? There’s really like 5 or 6 he got the most mileage out of…

These aren’t so much patterns as they are “melodies”… most important thing is actually the top note…even though Benson is comping here, there’s “melody” to what he’s doing…there’s a lot of quick chromatic approaches too, taking the same shape and moving it quickly up to the desired pitch from a few frets below.

If the Wes block chord thing is unfamiliar, let me know and I can get into actual shapes.

[sambrooker]

Hi , thanks for the info!
I haven't really looked into the Wes chord scales I've only read about it briefly. If you wouldn't mind getting into the shapes I would really appreicate it!
How doe they use it when comping? Is it in between the changes ?

[wolflen]

learning inversions is a key ingredient to what you want to know..a simple chord run I7 -ii7 - iii7 can sound like a flurry of complex chord/melody fills by using the same chords in inverted forms...and varied patters and positions..

CMA7 - Dmi7 - Emi7..then Emi7 first inversion - Dmi7 first inversion-CMA7 played on the 5432 string set..move it to the 3456 string set..play it backward ... use partial chord or just triads ..

to see just what is possible with just a few chords but in many different voicings check out ted greene's web site

wolf

[monk]

A lot of this type of comping or rhythm playing uses a mixture of diatonic and chromatic motion or I-V-I-V-I patterns to create motion over a single chord.

For instance, Wes Montgomery used Fm7-Edim7-Fm7-Gdim7-Fm7 over a Bb7 chord. In that pattern, the diminished chords are functioning as rootless C7b9 chords to connect the Fm7 inversions. Another pattern Bb7-Adim7-A7-Bb7-Eb7 would move from Bb7 to Eb7 or I7-IV7.

Randy Vincent's book Three Note Voicings and Beyond has a ton of information about chord motion. I highly recommend it.

[mr. beaumont]

So let's take something like a G7 chord...

My goal will be to get from a G on top and go up chromatically. So the note on the first string is most important...

x x 3 4 3 3
x x 3 4 4 4
x x 3 4 5 5
x x 5 6 5 6
x x 5 7 6 7
x x 7 8 7 8
x x 8 9 8 9
x x 9 10 10 10
x x 9 10 11 11
x x 9 10 10 12
x x 12 12 12 13
x x 13 14 13 14

I mean, that's just one way to do it...it's the note on top that's most important...play around with one or two of those shapes, and movethem chromatically...try something like this...

x x 3 4 3 3
x x 3 5 4 5
x x 4 6 5 6
x x 5 7 6 7
x x 11 12 12 12
x x 10 11 11 11
x x 9 10 10 10

play those chords as a quarter note for the first, two eights on the next two (chromatic approach chords) then quarter, two more eights, and quarter (into the next bar)

[edh]

@Mr. beaumont, cool.

Are those the block chords that Wes uses? If not where can I find those chords.

Thanks

[mr. beaumont]

Many of them, yeah, maybe not all...I kinda forget what I stole from wes and what was from Ed bickert.

[sambrooker]

Thanks so much for the help Mr Beaumont, wolf and monk , I've got a lot to work on here! It's much appreciated! In terms of actual comping are there many other common chord patterns like the 251 which are used by good jazz compers?

[mr. beaumont]

Not sure what you mean...When you comp, you play the tune, so if there's ii V I's in the tune, then yeah....are you talking about inserting more chords when a tune has a longer stretch of one chord? Or setting up 7th chords with a ii?

[Vladan]

Maybe people came with too advanced concepts. What Mr. B, and others are saying is, as I understand it, on comping, you actually play harmonized counter line. You know the melody, you imagine something that would fit over, than play it in as simple as possible grips of 2, 3 and 4 notes.

[monkmiles]

Jeff, this is great. Thank you for sharing. The way you presented it is so straight forward and effective.

So let's take something like a G7 chord...

My goal will be to get from a G on top and go up chromatically. So the note on the first string is most important...

x x 3 4 3 3
x x 3 4 4 4
x x 3 4 5 5
x x 5 6 5 6
x x 5 7 6 7
x x 7 8 7 8
x x 8 9 8 9
x x 9 10 10 10
x x 9 10 11 11
x x 9 10 10 12
x x 12 12 12 13
x x 13 14 13 14

I mean, that's just one way to do it...it's the note on top that's most important...play around with one or two of those shapes, and movethem chromatically...try something like this...

x x 3 4 3 3
x x 3 5 4 5
x x 4 6 5 6
x x 5 7 6 7
x x 11 12 12 12
x x 10 11 11 11
x x 9 10 10 10

play those chords as a quarter note for the first, two eights on the next two (chromatic approach chords) then quarter, two more eights, and quarter (into the next bar)

[edh]

@Jeff, thanks for showing those chords. Saved for my practice.

[mr. beaumont]

You guys are most welcome...maybe ill try and do a video on this...

I'd love someday to be able to solo polyphonic ally with the same ease as going for a single note line. I love this kind of stuff...

[Jonah]

Hi,

this is just a tip that I started from when I began to work with comping. I had to do it all by myself and I did not have much time for training))) so I kind of made a system to go faster.

But for this system you should be trained already in harmony

1)

I split all fingerings in parts. I learned all triads, all seventh chords forms, and 6th chord -
that is triad maj. and min, both aug. triads, maj.7, 7, min7, aug7, half-dim, dim.
And all the inversions (3 for triads, 4 for 7th and 6th chords).
When I made inversions I picked first only the shapes whith the change of melodic postions (in some postiions it is possible to take alt. forms with the same bass and other positions in other voices like 5-4-3-2 (g-h-d-fis) and 5-7-7-7 (g-d-fis-h) for Gmaj7 in first four strings, so at the biginning I just picked the second form as a general, because in the first there are sound involved in previous inversion 4-4-3-3- (fis-h-d-g) - so this one was like alternative so far.

I drilled all these inversions fingering on the following strings:
1-2-3-4
2-3-4-5
1-2-3-5
2-3-4-6

- Though I knew some shapes already of course I tried to build them all up again by myself and then check to compare with traditional finguring I knew (or checke wit the books and videos)
- Some of the shapes might seem awkward and not much useful in their strict forms, but I practiced them any way during drilling process just to stay in teh system without excepstion (they can give you something new, if not you will easily drop them out)
- always tried to remember where the root is
- drilled in various tonalities

2) I did not just mechanically repeated, impemented in
- hrmonic progressions I already knew (when I leant e.g. all half-dim and dom7th chord in 1-2-3-4, I practiced them together in the best resolution for harmony ii-v, etc. - so I kid of made various harmonic solutions and I after I knew the shapes I praciced them in harmony bunches

3) I practiced simultaneously reduced rythm chords in Freddie Green style

4) I also played scales in these chordal shapes

5) I tried to implemet it in the song compimng all together mixing the rythm chords with some high-position chords, my idea was no only to play the Freddie Green comping but also to develop a kind of solo-duo style (and I am still far from it)))

6) Since I was trained classically I also practiced tonal changes and modulations more or less accotding to claasical laws, tonal changes are not that important for traditional jazz as in claasics hwere it is crucial point, but they develope much harmonic hearing and voicings. And it is fun to play it for me it least.

The system is quite formal - that is in actual palying songs I can drop some notes, play double-stops etc. - this is not to learn and fix it for ever, this is to keep learnig, that is a language that I just learned the first letters but the idea is to be as naturally poetic with this language as possible... and nature is complex in its simplicity))))

I did not go for more complicated chords like 9th, 11th, 13th - you can easily adopt them when you handle basic ones, to handle them actually is much simpler than basic ones becacuse these additional notes do not effect much functional harmony-wise, they are mostly to make sound of a certain basic chord more lush, more colourful, or play non-chordal some melody line - so the use of them depend almost only on your preferance and taste.

Hope that helps

Regards

[Jehu]

You guys are most welcome...maybe ill try and do a video on this...

That would be awesome, Jeff. I have no problem understanding the inversions you're hitting, but I'm trying to wrap my head around how you decide on those passing chords. Is there any method to the madness, or are you just going by ear/experience?

[Vladan]

That would be awesome, Jeff. I have no problem understanding the inversions you're hitting, but I'm trying to wrap my head around how you decide on those passing chords. Is there any method to the madness, or are you just going by ear/experience?

My next project I'll name "Madness against The Method".