-
I read a great article on how so many of us people playing jazz use the fake book as a crutch. By that I mean we never really learn the tunes by heart inside and out. We all go to jam sessions with our fake books and are able to play 1000 songs. But we don't know them, myself included. In fact I play in a small Jazz band and I still use the fake book for most of our songs. I'm done with it, I must memorize these tunes and learn them inside and out. I used to play 40 rock songs in bands without looking at music with all the break, double leads etc. Why can't I do it with jazz?
ken
-
03-12-2014 10:49 AM
-
guitarplayer007,
When you say "jazz tunes" are you referring to songs from The Great American Songbook or are you referring to compositions by jazz composers/musicians?
Thanks,
Jerome
-
There are a few books on the topic that I like:
Beside it is helpful to remember that a lot of the tunes are very similar:
-Blues changes with small alterations
-Rhythm changes with small alterations
-Series of ii-V-I's
And off course the general shape of the tunes should be noticed:
-AABA
-AAB
-ABC
etc
-
thanks Gersdal
-
I'm a guitarist who sings. That probably helps a lot. When I undertake a song I live with it for a while. I Listen to multiple versions if possible and work up the harmonization to the point where I'm comfortable enough with the changes that changing key is easy. I try to get to the point where I can sing the tune unaccompanied all the way through. I've developed a life long habit of working on my guitar playing when I'm away from the guitar. A long time ago I worked in a factory and my job was kind of boring. I would work out chord inversions, etc. in my head and flesh them out later with the guitar in my hand. The downside of a good fake book is that it's too tempting to race from song to song. I use these materials only as a reference when I'm seeking out a specific song. I guess what I find helps most is to keep narrowing the focus of my efforts, kind of like if your working through some difficult musical notation, if you keep stumbling, keep narrowing your practice till you move through those problem areas and then expand your practice out.
Sorry for the long winded answer. Learn the songs one at a time; learn them thoroughly. In time you'll be able to grasp songs more quickly. Learning songs by ear (although I'm a dedicated believer in reading standard notation) helps this process as well.
-
Having played a lot of rock and pop music I know what you mean, lol. No problem memorizing 4 sets of music.
I think one of the things I ran in to with Jazz is that I had a tendency to think it was more complicated than it actually is but it is true that it is more complicated. For one thing the harmony is more complex as well as the rhythms. But I was hearing chords chords chords, 2, 3 or 4 per measure. I didn't realize at the time that I was just hearing inversions and passing or leading chords. The song structure itself was more basic than what I was hearing. Over time, analyzing the songs I began to see a simpler structure which helped with memorizing.
Truth is I still use a fake book and charts a lot but I'm working on getting some tunes memorized and I actually would prefer to be "off book". I have found that there really is no substitute for memorizing a tune like knowing it so well you can sing it or sing the melody like you would with any rock or pop tune. One of the crutches of having a book is it's always there so no "need" to memorize. I make a point to force myself off book inspite of possible errors just to work through it. It can be tough. It just takes more time because there is definitely more complex things going on with jazz and a lot of the "cues" that you might use in memorizing pop stuff just aren't there or are so much more sophisticated that it requires more time and study to memorize them.
-
Whether singing or not, I've always found it easier to memorize a song if I memorize the words. When I play, I can hear the words in my head, and I know where I'm at and where I'm going.
-
I think repetition is a fundamental approach to memorization.
-
Hardest part for me these days is keeping the lyrics straight occasionally. First thing I do to learn a tune that is unfamiliar to me is to play a few clips off YT of different versions. I try out various keys for vocal range and playability. Then I sit down at my computer with Sibelius and create a personal transcription, which is usually a kind of lead sheet on steroids with a melody staff and a guitar or piano staff(s) for the accompaniment, which I write in as block chords for the most part. The reason I do not usually write out complete arrangements is I prefer my 'shorthand' version, with the lyrics typed in below and chord names written above the melody line. I improvise the performance anyway, so simplicity and clarity of the architecture of the song is my goal.
When playing the song, the approach I use is simply following the melody and creating the harmony around it for an instrumental. If I'm singing the melody, the accompaniment guitar part just happens very naturally to me.
Essentially I do not need to create a transcription to learn the tune. I do it because I enjoy the process of creating a library of backing tracks over which to play. In other words I use Sibelius as some use BIABox as a rehearsal tool. And it allows me to work on both solo chord-melody style arrangements as well as jazz trio, quartet, etc. with solo guitar lines. Since you can orchestrate easily with Sibelius at the touch of a button, I have a lot of flexibility in terms of changing keys to an arrangement or providing a copy of the lead sheet to a duet partner or singer, for example.
And it is far easier for me to see the sheet music backlit and larger on a computer screen than reading off my spiral bound Real Little Ultimate Jazz Fake Book by Hal Leonard, which would be useless to me if performing as the print is too small.
Last edited by targuit; 03-13-2014 at 03:42 AM.
-
pierre knows...
-
Make sure to learn ONE tune at a time. The speed at which you learn depends on playing experience. Try to get it under your finger and into your ears at a good level before moving on to another song. You will perfect it by coming back to it often.
-
In seminary, we learned the Latin phrase "repetitio (est) mater studiorum," repetition is the mother of learning (or study for the sake of learning).
Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
-
This. Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
The more complex the tune, the more repetition is required, which is why learning rock songs is (on average) easier.
-
I am waiting for the inevitable "When I REALLY learn a tune, I never forget it."
(Translation: "I didn't REALLY learn those tunes I forgot.")
You might want to look into spaced repetition, and free software to implement it.
The default settings in the software are for memorizing facts, and not optimal for maintaining a lot tunes at a high performance level. Send me a PM if you want to try it, and I will tell you how to set it up.
-
When I studied at uni our method that we were taught was to
1. Listen to the original recording first.
2. Sing the root movement and then guide tone lines.
3. Sing melody
4. Learn the words to the head.
5. Analyse tune (this part is a 2-5 in the key of g then this part is...)
6. Learn melody on instrument
7. Learn chords, 1 section at a time (A section first then B etc..)
8. Practice arpeggios though entire form then same with guide tones.
9. Then learn in another key. This is where number 5 helps, especially on the fly as you will know it should be this progression in this key.
10. PLAY
It may look like a lengthy process just for a song at first, but the rewards and benefits out weigh the time spent.
It's one thing memorising a tune but it's another thing understanding it, hence a few of those steps.
-
When I was playing rock tunes, I typically learned the songs from records. That made it relatively easy to remember them. I don't do this with jazz as easily, although I should because improving you ear is very important. Many great jazz musicians can listen to a song and write it down without having their instrument their hands. Developing skills like that make it easier to learn and remember tunes.
Jimmy Bruno gave the advice of learning the words to every song you played that has words. Made it easier to remember the song and also helps connect with the emotional resonance of the song. This helps both your technique and your artistry.
-
Cunamara - I would agree with you about learning songs from audio or visual clips, whether jazz or other styles. In the end refining your ears is one of your goals. In terms of jazz as represented by the Great American Songbook, it is not difficult to write down what you hear without an instrument present. It really is about hearing the intervals and extension colors.
-
I'm a 25 yr guitar veteran, but only played jazz for a short time, but isn't the point to make a song your own through your own interpretation of how you want it to sound and not copy?
We are artists. I like to see the chords to help me play what I hear in my head. Maybe that's wrong?Last edited by eh6794; 03-17-2014 at 05:18 PM.
-
This has been posted before but the content is worth reading time and again until it's indelibly imprinted in one's mind. Originally Posted by eh6794
Clark Terry, whose career in jazz spans seven decades, has distilled learning to play jazz music into three words:"Imitate, Assimilate, Innovate". That's it in a nutshell. No one gets to skip any of the steps and there is no guarantee, unfortunately, that completing the first two steps will inevitably lead to the third.
http://jazzadvice.com/clark-terrys-3...improvisation/
-
I see your point.
-
Learn how to play jazz blues and rhythm changes inside and out in all 12 keys and you will cover a lot of ground. You have loads of typical progessions in there: major to minor, turnarounds to II, turnarounds to I. If you practice them long enough, you will hear these progressions in tunes that you are learning and it will be much easier and faster to learn. Just my 2 cents.
-
Major derail warning:
I don't think you're wrong. (Of course, how can anybody be 'wrong' about an opinion on an artistic endeavor Originally Posted by eh6794
I kind of agree. Let me explain "kind of": I believe that in the long process of 'learning jazz' (or any genre really), yes you need to do a lot of listening in order to understand the genre. (You can't learn anything if you aren't at least exposed to what others have done in the field first.) Of course, this means that as you are learning the genre, you will learn individual tunes, and you must listen to how others have done that tune. However, after a certain amount of learning (i.e. gaining some proficiency, especially in reading), I see nothing wrong with getting sheet music for something you've never heard and making it your own. I do it all the time. I've only recently (last few years) started listening to a lot of 'standards'. However, I have several fake books totaling a few 1000 tunes. I enjoy just browsing through, and if I see a composer I like or something else that catches my eye, I will play something. It becomes my interpretation of what was written, not what was heard. What is wrong with that? My goal is to make music, not necessarily to make the exact same music somebody else already made (which I probably won't or can't do anyway).
That's the whole point of written music, to communicate musical ideas with ink and paper. In centuries past, that is the way our ancestors frequently had to do it. Before broadcasting and recording technologies, sheet music was the hot commodity, not vinyl. Also, when I took lessons as a kid, I was always playing stuff I had never heard. Almost anyone who is 'classically trained' does.
I like my process. I think it really tests my abilities. I will occasionally hear a song for the first time after I've been playing it for a while, and I can compare my interpretation to some well-known performance. It gives me an interesting perspective.
-
Tribeo, I'm the new guy on this forum, so I didn't really want to rock the boat when Monk replied to my comment, but I agree with you (and to an extent, him)
I'm fortunate enough to dedicate 3 to 6 hours a day studying. I listen and watch videos. I play what I hear them do. I also like to read horn solos then try to understand what interval hes playing. That helps me understand what i can do and what sounds good.
I never try to memorize songs. I memorized songs when i was in high school, i dont see the point of it today. Maybe this is wrong, I don't know. Maybe its easier for me than other new jazz musicians because I've been playing guitar for 25 yrs.
Its been about 6 months since I started listening to jazz, I'd imagine I have another 6 months until I can start playing places. All I know is every week I know more and play better than I did the prior week. Progress!
Reply With Quote
dearmond 1100 reissue vs original which one is...
Today, 03:30 PM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos