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OK, I came up with the thread. You guys gotta come up with the content. Can we get some video/audio of the very best comping known to jazz? Bonus points for explaining why it is amazing.
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06-27-2013 05:37 PM
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A truly individual player is Jesse Van Ruller. Listen to what he's doing here. The vocalist still sounds quite comfortable and yet Jesse is taking it somewhere else. Just when it sails close to predictable he takes it out.
Always sounds fresh to me........kind of "jazz but not modern narcissistic....... nor ....old man jazz".
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I love Metheny's comping (not to mention the rest of his playing) on this tune:
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well that is great!!! I love Jesse's style!
Originally Posted by Philco
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I'm a big fan of Jim Hall comping.
I transcribed parts of it ...
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My favorite comper is Ben Monder.
But my favorite comping is the piano of Red Garland on "It never entered on my mind" played by Miles Davis.
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As my comping ability is poor, I am trying to figure out how I want to approach it. I wonder if people think that it makes sense to think of it at the most basic level in terms of counterpoint. So if the soloist is going up, the comper will often want to move in contrary motion downwards. So I'm thinking about working (to begin) with simple chord fragments and focussing on being able to have two options at any given moment, one up, one down. Also thinking about just focussing on the guide tones. Figure the bass is covered and the soloist gets the extensions. I have to check out that Ligon thing on comping today.
Thoughts?Last edited by jster; 07-09-2013 at 07:18 AM.
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I think it's a great thing to be aware of, to have at your command, to practice and to perfect. It's one of a good collection of tools. Don't overuse it though and don't put it above the ability to listen, play well with time and, here's the tough one, hear what the soloist is trying to say and support thoughtfully. You know, sometimes good comping begins with laying out; getting an idea of what your place is. Certainly counterpoint awareness is a good way to establish a dialogue, add texture and interest, but be aware if it even hints at being a distraction of what the soloist is doing.
Mick Goodrick, a capable comper in his own right told me to listen to the group dynamic without the guitar, know what the group is doing between the rest of the rhythm section and the soloist, and then after that point enter with thought, sensitivity and conviction to add something useful. Space is a good element of vocabulary as is counterpoint. Practice them.
Make sure your time is a top priority though.
My .05 worth of opinion.
David
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More Sco but from the old days when he was using the 335. Beautiful voicings...I love it when he comps four to the bar.
Moonlight In Vermouth
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Coooool! I dig that.
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Red's swing timing in his comping was amazing. Originally Posted by nado64
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The counterpoint thing is not gonna happen at all, maybe if you're playing a ballad.. If you're comping for someone, especially like a sax player, there's no way you can tell what direction they're gonna go in, and even worst if you're playing faster tempos. Originally Posted by jster
The thing you have to do first is stick with the groove. Give rhythmic support. If the soloist is decent enough, he/she should be able to solo well enough without the chords. You come in and stick to the groove, even if it means playing on the downbeat of every 1. Once you got the groove, you can begin to fill in, but it has to be in the groove. Don't just go around playing upbeats if it makes no sense.
The good thing I say you're thinking about is having options. You always want to have options. I have this sort of method for comping where I base my chords off the shell (as opposed to when I used to be totally root oriented, and I'm still working on it!), and add one note on top. Depending on how hip you want to sound, you can obscure the tonality more, use clusters and intervals instead of the shell, and so on. But since you're still learning how to get with it, stick to the shell. Also, be very aware of the register. I would never play a shell in the 6-5 strings, VERY rarely on the 5-4. I almost always stick to 4-3 and 3-2 string combinations. A little more advanced thing you can do is instead of adding a note on top, add it below, or in between. For example, if you have a shell on the 3-2 strings, add a note on the 4th string. Or you can play shells in two non-adjacent strings. So play it on strings 4-2, and add a note in the 3rd string.
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Check out how Ted Greene's accompanies singer Cathy Segal-Garcia.
http://www.tedgreene.com/video/tedgreene_Roccos_Accustomed.asp
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One of my favorites
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The matter with "comping a singer" in duet, is the singers scat rarely. So, the comping interact rarely with the improvisation of a solist. IMO.
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True, but one has to listen more in some regard, at least in my humble opinion. I think over playing is more evident with a vocalist than it is with other instruments. So in some ways comping behind a vocalist is more about the subtle things.
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Maybe it's just my own personal misinterpretation of the term comping . . but, I perceive comping to be an art form in and of itself. I see it as distinctly different from *accompanying* . . which is how I would classify what Joe Pass did with Ella and who Barney Kessel did with Sassy. I also see rhythm playing as distinctly different from both of the affore mentioned styles of playing. Yet, here on this forum, in this thread as well as others, I often hear people refer to any form of a guitarist's playing behind a soloist or vocalist as comping.
For most of my previous guitar playing life, I had been a rhythm guitarist. Funk, pop, rock n roll, rock . . etc.. And, I was damned good at it. Great rhythmic and syncopated usage of chords and individual notes.. (think TOP and AWB). But, good comping is different. Following the melody, harmonically moving lines, moving bass lines. Comping is another world, man . . .
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Its worth checking out David Gilmour's comping on the Strata Institute's Transmigration -fantastic album & great playing
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. I can see your point. Originally Posted by Patrick2
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Strange how nobody mentioned one of the contemporary kings of comping (especially with vocalists) : Russell Malone
As for explaining why it's amazing : I love how he chromatically approach some chords and the beautiful substitutions he uses, always very tasteful.Last edited by Nabil B; 10-30-2013 at 03:43 PM.
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I think my favorite "comping behind a vocalist" work is by Barney Kessel's on the Sarah + 2 album which the "Very Thought of You" clip above was taken from. That is a desert island album for sure.
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Incredable thread !
Finding some fabulous things here
Ted Greene OMG ! ......... loved it
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