please take the confusion out of playing arpeggios

[richard vandyne]

To whom it may concern: I am just starting on a program to learn all the arps in all the keys and have just thought about a potential problem that I would like to fix before it gets out of hand. I have all the fingerings for all the arps as set out by the CAGED system and have decided to begin with the dominant 7th chord arpeggios. The fingerings seem pretty simple for the E and A forms so that is how I will start out. My question is what happens when I start trying to play the inversions.!!!!!! Do I have to learn all over again how to play those chords or am I missing some part of the process that I should know before I start

[docbop]

I would say the easiest way to learn your arps is put them to use. Take a tune like a standard and play the arpeggios of the chords. In beginning start go back to the lowest note and play up. Then once you feel comfortable with the fingerings then start connecting the arpeggios with the nearest chord tone from one arp to the next. Play tunes in arps like this helps get the sound of a tunes changes into your ears also gets your fretboard together, and voice leading your lines.

[richard vandyne]

Hey Docbop_ Thanks for the suggestion-I will start with a standard that has few changes in it and work my way up.Great idea but what happens later on when I don,t like that chord and want an inversion.Do I just work on that new inversion rather that the original fingering , it seems so but I will have a much larger task than I invisioned.That would mean that every chord in every position will require a new fingering pattern.If I have to change my root note it will change the fingering pattern. Should I just start out by learning each chord in each place one at a time and forget about root notes etc.

[docbop]

Hey Docbop_ Thanks for the suggestion-I will start with a standard that has few changes in it and work my way up.Great idea but what happens later on when I don,t like that chord and want an inversion.Do I just work on that new inversion rather that the original fingering , it seems so but I will have a much larger task than I invisioned.That would mean that every chord in every position will require a new fingering pattern.If I have to change my root note it will change the fingering pattern. Should I just start out by learning each chord in each place one at a time and forget about root notes etc.

As you work thru your CAGED postions you'll be learning needing the all the arps in inversions so it all happens over time. If you want to start simple just do II-V-I-I in a key, then start cycling with CoF after that doing tunes should come easy. Don't forget to do the same with minor ii-V-i-i too.

[richard vandyne]

GOtcha_ I,ll pick out a simple one to start with and try to progress. What is cycling with FoF mean ????. I think your approach would be more fun than trying to learn all the arps before you play any music

[richard vandyne]

Bebop- One other thing.When you are playing the arps-do you play them chromatically or try to play the notes as they are written on the lead sheet???

[kofblz]

I think you may learn more about how the arps fit together if you stay in one general position rather than trying to play them all with the roots on the 6th string, for ex.

When I first learned Autumn Leaves I learned my arps where I usually played the chord. While that's a good start, I became much more comfortable with the tune when I learned to play them all in the same 3 or 4 fret range. This was the opposite of what my teacher told me, btw.

It does at least 2 really good things. 1)It breaks you out of wanting to begin each phrase on the root. 2)It forces you to notice what notes change from arp to arp and you'll then use these notes as entry notes into the new arp. Makes for nice flow.

[richard vandyne]

Kofbiz- thanks for the explanation. Where I am confused is if I am playing the chord -that fingering generally consists of the notes in the arpeggio and i can just finger those notes one by one with my fingers and cover all the notes in the arpeggio but they wont be played chromatically but out of sequence. is that ok or should they be played as written on the score. If I do that I am really just playing the melody of the song and not accompanying the music. I am probably making this more difficult than it should be but these questions keep coming up in my mind and I am not sure how to handle them

[kofblz]

Where I am confused is if I am playing the chord -that fingering generally consists of the notes in the arpeggio and i can just finger those notes one by one with my fingers and cover all the notes in the arpeggio

Not necessarily.

To know the arpeggio you have to know more than just the chord shape. Yes, the notes in any given chord are also in the arpeggio, and vice versa, but you need to know what notes make up any given arpeggio and how to play them in order - R,3,5,7, not just by playing the strings in a chord, one at a time.

The arpeggio is usually more complete than any one chord voicing.

Many common chord voicings may not even have all 4 notes of an arpeggio in them.

Arpeggio patterns usually have a few strings with 2 notes on one string. Can't do that with a chord.

[Guitarzen]

You want to learn arpeggios just like you learn scales: 5 boxes, for each chord type. As kofblz says you can't just hold a chord down and pick the notes. So therefore, what inversion of the chords you know doesn't matter. Although as your chord knowledge grows, so does your ability to play arpeggios more effectively grow since the two are so closely related.

[docbop]

GOtcha_ I,ll pick out a simple one to start with and try to progress. What is cycling with FoF mean ????. I think your approach would be more fun than trying to learn all the arps before you play any music

sorry typo should be CoF ( Circle of Fifths. )

[keith]

The inversions seem to be a concern of yours but recognize that the inversion from the third will be a minor 7 arp and from the fifth will be a dominant 7 arp so the fingering you'll likely know already. For example in C the first inversion is the minor 7th fingering from E.

Depending on which string you start on the fingering may change slightly so if you learn the major, minor and dominant fingerings for a key on each string you'll be able to use it for any key/situation. So if you now know the dominant fingering from each string then learn the major fingerings and then minor fingerings and the inversions should fall into place.

It's easy to get bogged down in the details when learning all the keys and not realize that you're doing the same thing over and over again in a mechanical fashion so understand the mechanics of it and then apply it to theory ( by this I mean understand that in major scale harmony the third is a minor 7 and the fifth is a dominant )

Once you get this down then modifying it for the half diminished hopefully will be a easy change for you. This is how I view it and I hope it helps somewhat!

[richard vandyne]

Gentlemen, I thank YOU FOR YOUR RESPONSES. It seems to me that the task at hand is to learn all the arps for all the keys in 5 different positions. It feels like a huge task to begin but I will start with learning the dom 7th chords first since they particularly apply to jazz and have somewhat of an extention.I probably will be able to use them the fastest. then move to the major and minor chords. Really appreciate your help. At least now I have some direction. Being able to play the position fingerings would seem primary and the move on to the chords. I am going to see if I can apply them to a particular tune as soon as I can,when I get a good feel . First dominant chords,then minor, then major chords. Again thanks.

[richard vandyne]

Keith- THanks for the additional info.Since I am really new at this I wasn,e aware of the similarities in fingerings of the different chords.If nothing else it relieves some of the pressure.Thanks for the input.

[pingu]

Gentlemen, I thank YOU FOR YOUR RESPONSES. It seems to me that the task at hand is to learn all the arps for all the keys in 5 different positions. It feels like a huge task to begin but I will start with learning the dom 7th chords first since they particularly apply to jazz and have somewhat of an extention.I probably will be able to use them the fastest. then move to the major and minor chords. Really appreciate your help. At least now I have some direction. Being able to play the position fingerings would seem primary and the move on to the chords. I am going to see if I can apply them to a particular tune as soon as I can,when I get a good feel . First dominant chords,then minor, then major chords. Again thanks.

Important Note

With respect I don't think you've got it straight yet Richard

If you try to lean these as a task , you'll get overwhelmed ...

So .........

take 'All of Me' in C (why not take all of me ;0)
Play C major arp 2 bars
E major arp 2 bars
A7 arp 2 bars
Dmin7 Arp 2 bars and onward through the changes in tempo over the tune

Sounds like music right ? Oh Yeah !
Hey you're practicing your Arps , playing a tune , and
learning moves (changes ) that are actually usefull when soloing

We're all doing this (even Pat metheny) every day
Man you wanna look up utube of Pat playing arps on 'All the things' sometime
Totally Awesome

[richard vandyne]

Pingu----- You are too smart for your own britches-How did you know that I was thinking that. Where can I get the rest of the tune in C. THanks I will let you know how it comes out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[richard vandyne]

Pingu- Sorry but I found it on page 16 in my real book !!! I was thinking attya and got confoogled. Now I am on track.

[docbop]

Keith- THanks for the additional info.Since I am really new at this I wasn,e aware of the similarities in fingerings of the different chords.If nothing else it relieves some of the pressure.Thanks for the input.

Don't just learn fingering, learn the notes of the chords that will get you a lot mileage down the road. Get some staff paper and write out the arp's of the chord progression. That will get the chord spellings in your head, also make it easy to see/discover the nearest note of next arpeggio to work on voice leading. Thinking how you would finger it before playing will greatly increase your fretboard knowledge. I also sing the arp's and that helps with ear training. What seem like one exercise can teach when you approach along these lines.

[richard vandyne]

Docbop-Gotcha - I have been working all day on these critters. Memorizing all this info will be tricky but I will get it done. I liked all your information but I ain,t singing. That would ruin it all!!!!! I am just going to take this one step at a time and see what happens. Appreciate your help.!!

[keith]

Don't just learn fingering, learn the notes of the chords that will get you a lot mileage down the road. Get some staff paper and write out the arp's of the chord progression. That will get the chord spellings in your head, also make it easy to see/discover the nearest note of next arpeggio to work on voice leading. Thinking how you would finger it before playing will greatly increase your fretboard knowledge. I also sing the arp's and that helps with ear training. What seem like one exercise can teach when you approach along these lines.

I fully agree!

[cosmic gumbo]

Jazz Guitar Basics: Arpeggios

[ColinO]

Re inversions. If you can play two octaves of an arpeggio then you have played all inversions of that arpeggio. If you play all the notes of an Amaj7 arpeggio in forth postion, then you will have played these notes G# A C# E G# A C# E G# A. Breaking it down:

G# A C# E - 3d inversion
A C# E G# - root
C# E G# A - 1st inversion
E G# A C# - 2nd inversion
etc.


So learn all the notes of an arpeggio in each position and then play the arpeggio starting on different chord tones and you will be practicing all inversions. I think this is easier than trying to learn each inversion on its own without reference to the whole.

+1 with respect to learning arps and inversions in the context of learning tunes. This can't be stressed too much. Again, play the arps over the chords in the tune starting on the root, then the 3d then the 5th then the 7th. Then play the arps over the tune and mix up the chord tone you start with. And on and on it goes.

[MackBolan]

Fundamental Changes in Jazz Guitar: An In depth Study of Major ii V I Bebop Soloing: Amazon.de: Mr Joseph Alexander: Englische Bücher

This book helped me a lot,cause it does exactly what"s described in No. 22 and how to spice up your
standard arpeggio patterns.

[Vladan]

I'm think I've read somewhere, recently, someone used "enclosures and aproach tones to acces arpegio notes".

So, the questions:
- if scale, or altered notes are added to arpegio, does it still count as an arpegio, or it becomes lick, or something else?
- Do the notes have to be played in order to be arpeggio?
- What's the name for playing only chord notes, but out of 135.... sequence?

[Vladan]

I found real qute, as written:

... He plays notes from those arpeggios sometimes adding other tensions and sometimes using chromatic neighbor notes to outline the arpeggio notes ...