please take the confusion out of playing arpeggios

[ColinO]

Vladan. I would answer your questions by first saying that playing arpeggios is not improvising and playing them up and down over chord changes is not a very interesting way to solo. However, using arpeggios as a framework for an improvised solo is a good way of approaching improvising. In other words, the notes in the arpeggio

So, if you add non-chord notes to an arpeggio, it is not an arpeggio anymore. You may however be said to be embellishing an arpeggio or creating a line based on an arpeggio or something like that. I would say that the notes have to be played in order to be an arpeggio and if I were playing chord tones out of order, I would be playing chord tones rather than saying I was playing and arpeggio.

[Vladan]

Thank you Colin, it just about summed it up.

[richard vandyne]

You guys should be teaching this stuff-Lots of good info. One more question (or two) when playing over the changes-should you be keeping a strict 4/4 time or should you be trying to play in rythum with how the sonf is intonated??? Last but not least- I am having a small problem finding a comfortable fingering pattern for the major 7th 5th string arp. Any good suggestions.

[ColinO]

There are good teachers here - I'm not one. But I get so much out of this site that I feel like I should try and help when I can for what it's worth.

When playing over changes you should try a variety of rhythms - straight 8s, swing, triplets - once you get the notes under your fingers.

I would try and find 3 fingerings for each string. Those three would start using your 1st, 2nd and 4th fingers. The patterns starting on the fifth string are the same as the ones starting on the 6th or the 4th (or the 3d and 2d) for that matter but bearing in mind that you have to shift up one fret on the B string assuming you are using standard tuning.

There really are just 3 one octave major 7 arpeggio shapes(starting from the root) when it comes down to it and making them into two or three octaves is a matter of piecing the 3 shapes together.

[richard vandyne]

your a teacher if you are willing to help those who know less than you do, Thanks for sharing, I am going to have to work with those ideas a while till I can assimilate the lesson. Thanks again

[Jonzo]

I disagree with the "just learn through tunes" approach. All of the pros I know personally suggest that some practice time be spent on drilling the actual arpeggios. The rule of thumb seems to be around 25% - 33.3% of practice time on "fundamentals", and the rest on tunes. Fundamentals would include all technique and theory work--anything that is not a tune.

When you work on a tune, you can make fingering charts to help you find the notes at first. Make a fingerboard chart for each arpeggio in one position for each chord in the tune. Then set your IReal Book (or whatever) to loop the tune slowly. You will probably want to leave out extensions (9, 11, 12, etc.) at first. Start with easy tunes.

Learning all of your arpeggios is a good long-term goal, but you should focus on mastering a group in one position first. You don't want to sort of know every position before you get around to mastering one position. You can play the hell out of a tune in just one position.

My kid's teachers told them to start with major, minor, diminished and augmented triads before moving on to the four-note arpeggios.

Be sure to practice the arpeggios in different patterns--not just straight up and down. Go up 2 back 1, start descending instead of ascending, etc.

[ColinO]

I agree - work on your arpeggios seperately and in the context of tunes.

I don't agree learning one position only at first. Once you have learned a one octave Gmaj7 arpeggio in 2nd position, you already know it in 4th position, 7th position(in part), 9th position and 12th position.

Once you learn fingerings for a one octave Gmaj7 arpeggio starting with the root using your 1st, 2nd and 4th fingers, you can do two octave arpeggios in multiple positions all over the neck.

Why not use that knowledge when it is relatively simple to acquire?

Same goes with minor7, dom7, etc arpeggios.

[Jonzo]

I was unclear. You are right that fingering patterns are movable to different positions.

What I meant was to first master one set of patterns that work well together in any position, as Warnock and Elliott describe (better than me).

[richard vandyne]

Thanks guys- I think you are both getting around to the same thing (solidifys my thinking. Since this is my first time out in working away from regular scales and wondering into the unknown I have been trying to get the patterns into my hands before getting into any one song. I don,t think I can proceed too much further till I have a lot of confidence in my pattern work. I looked at some songs and from what I can see they all pretty much reguire knowledge of the maj7.min7.and dom7 patterns as well as the other chords. I tried at first to run a few bars but got bogged down quickly because I was stumbling around too much. I plan to spen time on the patterns and positions at least until I can feel confident.

[jckoto3]

Richard,

I second the recommendation for Joe Elliot's book "Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing". Matter of fact, I'd say it's probably exactly what you need right now.

The book is largely a very well laid out method of mastering all the diatonic arpeggios on the guitar in the context of several common progressions the author calls "situations". After getting a good handle on these the author starts to introduce other color tones and then the altered scale. The book is deceptively simple in its presentation with very short chapters, but if you follow the instructions to the letter you are almost guaranteed to know the diatonic arpeggios and altered sounds so well you could play them in your sleep.

There is a series of threads about this book here on jazzguitar.be:

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/impro...ead-index.html

[Jonzo]

Richard--just be sure to start working with tunes also, right away. Drilling the arpeggios and using them in tunes is complementary. You can use fretboard diagrams as training wheels while you are still learning the patterns. As jckoto says, Elliott's brevity can be decieving. It can take quite a while just to learn the basics. You don't want to delay playing music while mastering arpeggios.

[richard vandyne]

jckoto3-Thanks for your concern.I remember they started a class with FEP And a few others a few months ago.I wanted to get in on it then but I was and still am in mexico and had no way to send for the book so I couldn,t attend the class .From what I heard it was well received by all the class members . I am coming back to the usa in a few weeks and plan to get a copy of that book. Do you know who would have it in stock. I have a problem with receiving mail here so I am not up on the music stores who may have a copy. Are you using the program now??

[richard vandyne]

jONZO YOU ARE SO RIGHT ABOUT KEEPING UP WITH THE MUSIC WHILE LEARNING. I SOMETIMES FORGET AND GET TOO WRAPPED UP IN THE FUNDEMENTALS AND FORGET WHY I AM LEARNING ALL THIS. always RUNNING INTO STUMBLING BLOCKS THAT KEEP ME FROM MY APPOINTED TASK!!!!!