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C+7 chord...
I'm unclear as to what this chord would be? Can someone spell it out for me please? My best guess is C E G# B??
Cuz if you raise the 7 ur back at the 1 chord, right? So the only thing that makes sense to me is that it's saying C aug but add the 7? Is this correct?
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10-06-2012 09:01 PM
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The + is a #5 as you have and the 7 is a dominant 7th ( b7 ) or Bb in your example, So C E G# Bb for your example.
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ooooohhh ok makes sense thx!!!!
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Can I ask how you knew the 7 was dominant? That's the one thing I don't understand?
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Anytime you see a 7 after a note name it's dominant. a dominant 7th is a whole step(2 frets below) the root.
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Just a really confusing, sloppy, like to backhand slap the writer, version of C7#5.
Bet it's a flat 13 too
Its gotta say maj or M or have a delta symbol to be a B in that chord.
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Okay wow that's the first time I have ever heard that rule...good to know!!!
I THOUGHT it looked like a C7#5! LOL
Thanks bro!
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Yep!
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And how about the notation for C Major 6, which is simply "C6." If you don't really understand that there is no Dominant 6, it could give you a little confusion.
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Well...6 is before 7...so the note that handles the dominant distinction isn't in play...
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It's not the way I'm used to seeing it written but I can't say that it confused me. To me, the + means augmented and that's what I need to know.
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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The b13 is going to have the tension rub of 5 and b16, and where 7#5 only brings the augmented sound. So quite different sounds to me. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Bet it's a flat 13 too
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In past chord symbol oddness was typically the copyist's fault hence the huge chords on old charts. The copyist was usually working from score or composers sketch and seeing the chord the arrangement was playing. On real old lead sheets chord symbols many time were based on what they believed the masses could play, that's why so many diminished chords that were really dominants. Skip ahead to current times and most composers are using computer tools and so symbols are more likely to be what the composer was wanting, but again published lead sheet the publisher's engraver is editing chord symbol's for the masses and they are going to consider a 7#5 a chord the masses' are like to know versus a 7 b13.
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I think the use of the plus (+) to indicate an augmented triad is an earlier and more common usage than a #5. In other words, I think you'll see C+ much more often than C#5 when the leadsheet author is trying to indicate an augmented triad (the latter is pretty confusing, no?). Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
Then, when you start indicating 7th chords, it's a small step to C+7. Personally, I have no problem with that chord symbol, and it's likely more commonly used than C7#5.
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Seems we have a thread every month where someone asks about chords written this way. That's why I say it's confusing.
I say, tell me the damn chord, then any extensions or alterations. how hard is that?
Grumpy today maybe....just seems to be another way people make jazz tougher than it needs to be.
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Confusing....
C+7
C7+
C7#5
Caug7
C7aug
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Stick to the ISO standard notation.
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Here's one that confuses me:
F6/9
Does this mean F6add9 or F6 with the 9th in the base. I have seen the latter alot of times. So I always assume(dangerous I know) that it is with the 9th in the base? Any Help as to if there is a rule?
Thanks
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The way I learned it was your first definition a F6 chord with a 9 added. In fact one of my favorite chord is a F6/9#11. Originally Posted by edh
Having played a long time, working at and attend multiple music schools I've seen a lot different variations on chords symbols from different countries and regions. For ages people have talked establishing a standard, but no one can agree on which ones to use. So I find it best to just get used to the common subset of symbols and when in doubt simplify the the chord till you hear it or can ask someone else on the gig.
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I've always played those F A D G don't know whether that's right or wrong.
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Ha, ha. See what I mean. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
When I was part of the "uninitiated" I thought "C min 7, C maj 7, C dom 7" so there must be "C min 6, C maj 6, and C dom 7."
Needless to say, I was waaaaayyyyy off base. But I have to admit, when I saw the C6 shape, I began looking for a C min 6 and C maj 6 shape in my book.
I am happy to say that "mine eyes were opened" since that tender time.
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On a laid back day for sure. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Bet it's a flat 13 too
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Yea.. notation of chord symbols. When looking at the symbol by it's self.
The only relationships are to the notes in the actual chord... it's very hard to determine what the symbol really means.
Generally when in context, in a tune or progression, with or without melody... there are relationships within the chord and also within the context. Usually more than enough info. to understand function and source of notes... anyway... one chooses to notate the chord symbol.
That can also get confusing... Western Classical tradition doesn't cover or deal with many jazz harmonic common practices, (where the chord is from and how it's functioning in context).
It's fairy simple to come up with all the sources of C+7 , harmonically or melodically. Take all the pitch collections... build chord structures and it's pretty obvious. Same with melodic concepts, which may also alter or reflect spelling of chords in a context.
Still even when you go through this process... there are the standard or more commonly used voicing used by jazz players.
You can always check out, "Standard Chord Notation" by Carl Brandt and Clinton Roemer, from the seventies... still somewhat the standard.
Reg
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Like DocBop said, there are rules and then there are exceptions. The slash in 6/9 is one of those conventions/exceptions. (see what I did there?) Originally Posted by edh
Usually (!), when a bass note is indicated with a slash, it's the note name that's given: CMaj7/E. But watch out for polychord notation, like on the Polytone badge.
Here the slash is more often, but not always, horizontal. Think of Herbie Hancock playing a F# chord with his right hand and a C7 with his left.
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No it does NOT mean FMaj6 with 9th in the bass. It's notating an FMaj 6/9, six-nine-, which is a common Major jazz chord. Originally Posted by edh
I'd also like to add, for us piano players, it's common to simply write FMaj. Extensions are not even necessary on the page for unless the composer demands it, generally extensions are a matter of personal taste. In fact, the rule of the least information on the page the better works just fine for this blind melon chittlin'.
Don't confuse a 6/9 notation with a slash chord, i.e. any chord notation emphasizing the bass note. That's not what 6/9 is communicating.Last edited by 2bornot2bop; 10-08-2012 at 12:09 PM.
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It makes more sense to me that the 6/9 should be writtem 6add9. This would mean the dom7 would be left out, without question. A 9th chord has the dom7. This is what makes it confusing.
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