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I've been playing swing/bebop for a few years now, but the bossa nova still is a mystery for me in regards to how to comp in a way that doesn't step on the toes of the rest of the band. When comping on a bebop tune I avoid the low E string when I can in order to stay out of the bassists way, but I noticed a lot of good bossa nova players play these big chords including the low E string and they make it work somehow. I know the bass usually alternates between the root and fifth, but what about tritone subs? Wouldn't it clash if one guy chooses a sub and plays the bass note while the other doesn't?
I've been looking for instructional material on this subject, but it seems limited. Preferably I would like to find something done by brazillian guitarists since those are heads above anyone else. I want to be able to play like that. The really good cats there have perfect time, and I am searching for clues for how to learn bossa nova correctly. There are a lot of non brazillians who play it with syncopated bass, bad voicings etc and I want to avoid that. Can anyone point me to instructional material that ensures that I learn authentic voicings for comping in this style? There's got to be something out there. Thanks!
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11-26-2011 06:47 PM
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Try this:
There's a lot on comping, although the title indicates else wise...
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this is the best single resource, by a brazilian. many examples from actual recordings of top players (toninho horta, oscar castro-neves, joao bosco, etc), with and without lower strings.
Amazon.com: The Brazilian Guitar Book (9781883217020): Nelson Faria: Books
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+1 Another vote for Nelson Faria's book.
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Both of these books are excellent, but applying the principles is the hard part. I would recommend 2 sources: the Sinatra/Jobim recordings, and any or all of Joao Gilberto's recordings. Gilberto invented bossa-nova guitar, and Jobim learned directly from him. On the Sinatra recordings, Jobim tends to stay in the higher register and avoid basses, while Gilberto's accompaniments make use of such devices as 3rds, 5ths and 7ths in the bass to create countermelodies. Also, if you are working with a bassist, roll off your own bass frequencies, in general , the bass will be far enough away (a fifth or more) that there should be very little clashing even if the guitarist is using the 5th and 6th strings. The "real" bass register starts at our C on the 5th string, so avoiding notes below that might be your choice if you're hearing interference with the actual bassist.
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Thanks to everyone for their suggestions! Ron, that cleared it up a bit for me. I'll my ear and listen closely whenever I approach the bassists register. I will see if I can find some performances from Joao on YouTube so I can see what he is doing until I can get that Nelson book.
A pianist I play with showed me a book once called "Inside the brazillian rhythm section". While it featured a few voicing examples for guitar, it was not a strictly guitar oriented book. I had the chance to check it out, as well as the accompanying CD. I mean that book is worth the price just to hear the performances on the CD. It grooves like no tomorrow, and there are certainly a lot to learn, but it was not focused enough on the guitar for me to spend money on - at this point. I think more experienced players will greatly benefit from it though. Hopefully, I'll get remotely close to the level of those brazillians during my lifetime, heheh. Right now I need to learn the right voicings and voice leading, as well as get as many different claves as possible in my repertoire.
Speaking of claves, do you usually decide on a common clave with the drummer before playing? Someone told me once that you need to play the same clave as the drummer. Thanks!
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Well, the clave is the basic rhythmic structure, so a brief discussion might be in order. However, in music of African origin and influence, such as samba, there are different parts for each rhythmic instrument, including hand drums and shakers, etc. In bossa, the drummer does play the clave, the guitar plays off it, and the drummer and guitarist can improvise a bit on the rhythms. Your best way into that is to play along with whatever you can find that you know the changes to. Gilberto's Ipanema is in D, so sketch those out and play along with his youtube with Caetano Veloso. Gilberto is so free that you will think you are lost more than once, it's excellent training.
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The hard part of playing good bossa nova guitar is to get the habit of constantly varying rythm patterns and accents across the song
I recommend Carlos Arana two books on Brazilian Guitar,
Bossa Nova Guitar: Essential Chord Progressions, Patterns, Rhythms and Techniques: Carlos Arana:
which are very didactic and thorough, specially on using the many possible pattern variations. In my opinion, these books are the only ones providing something more than enumerating a few patterns.
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Listening to Gilberto or Romero Lubambo is also a great way to hear the variations, both rhythmic and harmonic.
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Romero Lubambo has a DVD of Bossa Nova comping patterns. I haven't seen it.
Originally Posted by ronjazz
http://www.amazon.com/Bossa-Guitar-L.../dp/B00076YPPI
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In my opínion you just need to listen to a lot of Bossa records , until it becomes as natural as Bebop...
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Is this book in French, or in English? Originally Posted by mhch
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Carlos Arana's books are in English ... Sorry for the so late reply !!
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Yea The Brazilian Guitar Book... as posted by Randolljazz
And "Brazilian Music Workshop" by Antonio Adolfo, good CD with samples.
Although Rebeca Mauleon's books are generally Salsa montunos... she does cover the brazilian montuno concept and she can definitely back up what she say's.
I have played salsa. latin, Brazilian gigs for years. Most latin and Brazilian players are searching for jazz harmonic approaches to improve their playing. Rhythmically... it's not that difficult... most grooves are established and stay there.
As far as voicings or style... really depends on ensemble and volume. Use of subs, chord patterns, montunos etc... are basically the concept.... don't trash the style and groove of tune. You generally find a space within the arrangement... somewhat like orchestration...play a part that works with ensemble.
Solo or small ensemble work is different... that's generally where you hear and see the fuller voicings with low note thythmic accents... helps create the feel.
But check out the books they'll give you accepted details. They're cheap.
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Listening to this music should also give you an insight on how the guitar can work with the piano. not always the easiest thing to do with two harmonic instruments trying to play at the same time.
Cheers
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Worthy update of an old thread. To the OP, are you still working on Brazilian stuff and if so, how is it going?
I got that Faria book a while back, but have only dabbled a little in it. Over the last week, I dusted off my nylon string and have been working on a very simple chord-melody of Corcovado. Emphasis on simply nailing the bass notes on 1 and 3, playing the melody and filling in the basic chords. Challenging, but getting easier very slowly.
I'd eventually like to be able to play swing/bebop, a little Brazilian and a little Afro-Cuban all at least adequately. We'll see if I can get even one together convincingly. I also just ordered the Chuck Sher Latin Real Book for fun.
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I checked nelson's book the Bossa rythms don't seem have bass lines to 'em , is that something i should just add by myself ?
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It's mostly just alternating root-5th bass in the other videos you posted. It's hard to get away with that straight alternating bass like that, in most of jazz, but it works really well in Bossa.
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Hi, just remembering that sometimes the clave pattern must be inverted. It depends on the rhythmic subdivision of the melody.
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Those two books are excellent.
And, they aren't the same.
Adolfo's book has a more detailed explanation of exactly what to play and how it fits into the band.
Faria's book has a beautiful step by step approach which leads up to playing parts transcribed from major recordings.
As far as the question about tritones, it may be that Brazilians are a little less free with reharm on the fly. I think that they may avoid randomly tossing in tritone subs when they know there's another player doubling the bass line. And, it's not just roots and fifths -- sometimes it's repeated roots.
Figuring out the basic patterns isn't difficult and Adolfo prints a number of useful patterns. Also, figuring out the voicings is facilitated by Almir Chediak's books which have chord grids with the composer's own grips.
The actual hard part is nailing the feel. It isn't exactly the way people write it and the rhythms are varied constantly and often stretched or compressed. Getting that to sound Brazilian, that's a challenge, IMO.
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Make sure the bass note on the 2nd beat (3rd beat in 4/4) is lower than the first. If you can't reach a lower note, repeat the same one. Originally Posted by mooncef
Playing everything with a 5th in the bass is absolutely fine.
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It's funny how the alternating bass thing is such an integral part of so many musical forms. Does it come from Polka? Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
Earlier (pre bop) forms of jazz certainly have alternating bass. Actually a good two feel is still a pretty essential part of a good bass players feel arsenal. Listening to Paul Chambers playing 2, he always reminds me of a New Orleans tuba player. Just a bit of variation and a bit of walk to make things cool.
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