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I'm thinking of buying a book for big band arranging and stuff like that but I'd like to know if anyone here knows a book he or she can recommend for this topic?
Amazon.com: Arranging for Large Jazz Ensemble (0073999098716): Ken Pullig, Dick Lowell: Books
Anyone read that book?
/t
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08-24-2011 07:42 AM
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Haven't read that book but here
http://www.garritan.com/index.phpopt...pper&Itemid=41
is a free course in jazz arranging. I worked on it a bit and it seems to be pretty good.
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The Professional Arranger/Composer...Russell Garcia...
Or big time...Principles Of Orchestration..Rimsky-Koskov...
I went through them both..some years ago...
Time on the instrument...pierre
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I have one called, "Jazz Composition & Orchestration," by William Russo. To be honest, I've never really gone through it in any depth - it's over 800 pages. But I bought it (a long time ago) because it was supposed to be good!
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Sammy Nestico, The Complete Arranger, probably the most influential book for real arrangers. I went through Russo's book over 20 years ago, and it's some heavy duty shit at 800+ pages.
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Has anyone read Robert Larson's Arranging for the Small Ensemble?
I am leaning towards that or the The Professional Arranger/Composer...Russell Garcia.
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Best arranging texts I've used:
Inside the Score, by Ray Wright
Changes Over Time by Fred Sturm
These are assuming you actually understand something about voicing chords for horns. There's analysis of charts by many great arrangers. The section in Wrights book on writing passing chords is superb.
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All the above and many more if your just starting. Typically Big band is more in a jazz style... and if that's what your after, the Berklee arranging for big band would be much more useful.
Don't get into using music composition and notation software too much, Finale, Sibelius etc... you almost become a product of your samples...
If you start... I'll be more than happy to help, I've arranged and composed hundreds of charts for Big Bands. probable more, I have boxes of old charts, back when we had to actually write out charts and even parts. I still hand write out chart outlines and use notation software to print parts.
Arranging becomes very mechanical after you mentally come up with the arrangement.
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Thanks guys.
After playing with an 18 piece big band for over a year I've become very interested in learning to write my own arrangements. But, I'd like to start out by doing 2-3 part arrangements for my 50's rock n roll/ R&B group (think King Curtis) as I am adding two horn players this summer.
So I'm looking for something that can start me off with basics and work towards building small ensemble arrangements.
Reg,
I'll definitely be in touch. Thank you.
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Yea... basically BB is just writing 2 and 3 lines that work together. generally very basic counterpoint, and then you voice out the lines. Somewhat more modern arranging use the rhythm section also a a line... with rhythmic and harmonic implications. Take a tune you know... use the melody, then write a counter melody and then use one of the sections to punch harmony... most rhythm sections will know what to play from lead sheet of arrangement.
Now you just have fun with which section is the melody etc... and how you voice will just create depth and dynamics. If you've already played BB gigs... you know basically most horn sections know loud and louder. Stick a mute in it... and make the saxes play their doubles... flutes and clarinets.
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Berklee Music Online. Build skills from the ground up, with Berklee college instructors and world class instruction all the way. Impossible to beat from a remote/global perspective.
I'm not affiliated, just an on-and-off again student myself.
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Writing for big band and writing for 2 or 3 horns is very different. I agree if you're just starting with arranging then starting with a small ensemble is a great way to get your feet wet and build some confidence. Like Reg I've spent years writing for different size ensembles. Finale has become my pencil and paper. I find it faster and it cuts down on the repetition needed when writing by hand. Good luck.
For small ensemble the Russell Garcia book is a good start. For big band I got a lot out of Inside the Score.
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Thanks Mark. I am currently using MuseScore to get my feet wet. If I really get into I might move up to Finale.
I think I'll start with Garcia's book and then work up from there.
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I recommend studying with someone. There are different "schools" of orchestration, if you will, and great orchestrator-composers follow on in their own schools, so you'll learn little tricks and techniques that you won't pick up from a book, no matter how good it is. Sadly, if you live in a smaller town, you can't do that. In which case, the more you read, the better it is for you. I'll be one to also recommend studying a bit of classical orchestration, you might pick up something from there you'll like. There's a really good book, I think it's called Techniques of Orchestration, can't remember the author, but Steve Coleman cites it a lot, so it should be worth checking out.
I'll also be one to recommend looking at scores. You can find some Thad Jones, Bob Brookmeyer, Duke, etc, charts somewhere and analyze the living crap out of them.
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Garcia's 1st book is very dated, and basic. Almost to the point that once you get through it your going to need to relearn arranging all over again. I went through as kid...It really depends on where your at musically now, how much you understand. Ratio of vibrations between notes is Garcia's control for dissonance and consonance, he does have basic guidelines for approaches to all arranging... the order of importance, 1)rhythm, 2)melody, 3) harmony, 4) orchestration.
And that order might be reflective of what you need to know before you begin to make arrangements of music.
Orchestration is a very different approach, almost a different world... not just arranging, but basic concepts of theory and harmony...
The nice thing about Berklees book. they tend to create faster approaches to learning how to arrange, mechanical techniques, they were the 1st to teach the dropped 2, 3, 4 etc... concepts for arranging voicings of instrument groups, sections and how they work together.
You really learn how to arrange before you actually musically understand what's going on, with use of their control guidelines. There are very physical guidelines of range, intervals and instrumentation.
My point... how much time and energy might be the guideline to what books and which teachers you choose.
If your performing in a Big Band, you can try things out... by far the fasted way to learn.
Think about what your approach is to playing Guitar... how organized are you. learning to arrange is basically the same thing. How much detail do you want to deal with. And arranging requires a lot more information than playing guitar.
I have all the books, and have years into composing and arranging... years... but that's my approach, also to playing guitar or piano etc...the time commitments can become years very easily.
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Arranging for Large Ensemble is pretty good for getting a taste, but I'd add these to your quiver (yeah, dating myself):
Henry Mancini
Don Sebesky
Nelson Riddle
Sammy Nestico
William Russo
Both Berklee books - Small Ensemble and Large Ensemble
Lalo Schrifrin
Rimsky Korsakov - Principles of Orchestration
I'd be interested in seeing anything Walter Murphy might come up with based on his time as the arranger for Severinson on the "Tonight Show" and, years later, "Family Guy".
Reg seems to be the "pro from Dover" here so defer to him, but you might also check out Jim Martin at pdfjazzmusic.com - he runs a class of 8-10 students a few times a year - he's a professional arranger and I like his teaching style.
I also am one that liked to use Finale and both GPO and JABB to hear what I was putting together as I didn't have combos or a big band/stage band at my disposal. You can get a good approximation, but of course, just my opinion.
Like anything else, it takes daily practice to gain mastery, and all my free time these last few years has gone into guitar. I haven't done any arranging for a few years, but all the study did help out a lot with chord melody arranging. Not that I'm any good at it, but I understand what I'm trying to get my fingers to do...
Just my experience.Last edited by ah.clem; 06-23-2015 at 10:39 AM. Reason: Mis-spelling
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HA HA yea I have way to many books etc...... pro from dover, that's about it... one of many...nobodys.
Yea Jims very organized and really helpful with teachers, band directors etc... I also use Finale... but I'm old school... grew up with pen and that weird paper with lines all over. As you seem to know... it really take a long time to be able to arrange etc... and fast.
The only reason i was pushing the quick fix...most just don't have the time, energy etc... And it's really such a different world now with arranging and composing. Not many working composers and arrangers making somewhat of a living, at least in my circle of friends still working, still pull from the old school approaches.
Most notate and edit from the keyboard etc... or make sketches and create samples which usually becomes the final product, the budget seems to never be enough etc...
Love to hear some of those chord melodies...
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Man, I'm working hard to get something worth posting in the showcase section. Soon, I hope. Recently, I got together with a forum member to do a little jam and I froze up like a deer in headlights - happens in my lessons at times, too.
Originally Posted by Reg
Panic is my Co-Pilot, it seems.
I started composing and arranging in the early 70's and I love the feel of a good fountain pen on decent manuscript, but really loved it when I could move from the piano to a MIDI keyboard and play the parts in. It's a real time-saver, but I agree, there is nothing like writing out parts (good and bad). But that's a whole 'nother thread, or even discussion board. Originally Posted by Reg
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Deer in the headlights... I'm sill laughing. thanks.
Yea i started working(arranging etc,,,) in LA in late 70's... lots of work.
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OK, I'm going to start with Berklee's Arranging for Large Jazz Ensemble (based on the input above) and created an account on pdfjazzmusic.com as well.
A lofty goal of mine is to ensure the big band I'm in (The George Manstan Big Band) continues. Its been around since 1968 and we now have children of original members playing in the group. Sadly, at 43 I am the second to youngest player. Most of the guys are in their late 70s and 80s but still going strong.
I love this group and I believe that by learning about and creating new arrangements I can help continue the group's legacy.
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Haven't read it, Tomtom94, and I certainly lack the expertise of others posters on this thread, but it looks like a good starting place to me and you've made a good decision to start there. One advantage is that it comes with a CD with examples. The Berklee Press book on arranging for small and medium jazz ensembles also comes with a CD. Originally Posted by Tomtom94
Looks like Inside the Score also has a CD, but may be available only from third-party dealers. I also see that there is an 2008 edition of Russell Garcia's book which has a CD with volume 2. Others of the classics recommended by others may have a recent edition with a CD.
There's a new one that looks like it might be helpful: Jazz Composition and Arranging In the Digital Age. Description says "advances in music technology and software may be integrated with traditional compositional concepts to form a new and more efficient paradigm for the creative process."
It's really great that you have a band to write for.
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Yea The manhattan book,(Sussmans), is great... covers much more material. But it's somewhat more mainstream... doesn't use the very mechanical approach the Berklee books uses... and gets into the midi and software thing etc...
Takes much more time to get through... 1st half of book is basic composition and arranging etc... it also approaches from a more classical approach musically.
Not as mechanical of approach, they want you to understand everything on the way to arranging for BB. When you eventually get to BB arranging... covers same basic concepts, more of in the classical tradition of making it more than it really is. The berklee book will get you putting out arrangements much faster...
Band looks great and very fun... keep it going.
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