Analyzing jazz standards

**P4guitar** · 08-07-2011, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Guys I'm definitely not saying one key.

But I am saying one key for a series of changes.

Take a standard and record it two times...first time, hit every change you can in your line...second time, play off key centers as they shift.

That's all I'm saying...there's times when one approach works better than the other...I think on morre "open" sounding modern tunes the second approach works better...that's what I mean. By a modal approach.

Check out levine's jazz theory book...I'm not saying anything new.

Okay, I think I know where you're coming from now. Playing key centers is just another seasoning one uses per their own taste, just like playing the blues over changes.

Would you give me an example of a particular tune where you think the key-centric modal approach works better than playing the changes? I ask because I've never had that thought, I've always wanted to play the changes as a first resort but it's good to get another perspective.

Also this gets away from my analysis question so in the spirit of coherency I'll posit that the modal approach requires an initial analysis to know what mode(s) are applicable and that's why you do it. Am I off base?

**kolyuchiy** · 11-01-2013, 03:02 PM

Hi guys! Who can advise me a book with analysis of jazz solos?

**princeplanet** · 11-02-2013, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by kolyuchiy

Hi guys! Who can advise me a book with analysis of jazz solos?

Levine or Bert Ligon.

**JonR** · 11-02-2013, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by exarctly

I basically look at tunes as how to play through them, because key change or not, you still have to play the right harmonies which does require leaving the original diatonic key. But if there is a better way to understand or memorize them, I am interested.

Well, "better" depends on your requirements. If you feel you want a deeper or alternative interpretation of a chord progression, it's usually possible to make one.
We all have a sense of how deep or fancy we need to go for a tune to "make sense" to us, individually. Pretty much as the others are saying. You can "understand" at different levels.
Eg as Fep says, quite often something like "1/2-step passing chord" is enough, rather than seeing something further like "tritone sub" or "dim7 sub". I'm always seeing chromatic chords as working via half-step voice-leading, and that's plenty for me. I understand that sometimes it's a secondary dominant, or secondary leading tone chord, or backdoor progression, or whatever, but the way it works is always via that chromatic voice-leading (up or down, but more often down).
It can be interesting to look at various analyses, but it comes down to playing in the end.
Eg., I didn't really get the "altered" scale until I realised it was all about half-step resolutions to tones or extensions on the tonic. And as such it aligns exactly with the tritone sub, the bII7 chord. V7alt = bII13#11, same chord, different bass note (IOW, they're inversions of each other). IOW, it's one thing: a bunch of half-step moves, that's the reason for either the alteration of V7, or its replacement with bII7.
IOW, the theory wasn't a lot of use until I understood how it worked. And then I don't need the theory any more. (Which doesn't mean I'm no longer interested

)

Originally Posted by exarctly

Hey, what is the back door thing? Not familiar with the term, but I probably have played a million of them.

bVII to I, as Fep says. It's like a sub for a minor plagal cadence - and again it's all about half-step descents.
Try F9 > Gmaj7, you'll get the idea: like Cm(6) > Bm, but with the interesting contrary bass move F-G.

**kolyuchiy** · 11-03-2013, 03:12 AM

Thank you!

**vhollund** · 12-15-2013, 10:38 PM

I permit myself to reopen the discussion. Maybe we can squeeze a little more out of the topic... i hope.

Darn that dream ...What a great song.

(Heard it first time when i heard Birth of the Cool many years ago... not the best version out there though imo but...)

When I see the progression and have to place the chords :

The first measure is "kind of" and roughly a l Vl ii V (the altered V in both relative minor/major, share the same melodic minor scale) which is probably simplifying it too much to begin with , but it leaves it open for some "rythm" and "blues" jazzlicks maybe later in the solo.
You could skip the Eb9 or the Bbm7 and play just one chord , or simply play Bbm11
Mesure 3 is just a decending bass , and you can also read it as a iim7 V to D minor (resolving to Dm6/B)
And again roughly said , from mes. 5 : l 2 5 l 3 "6" l 2 5 l 3 6 2 5 l

ll I biii l ii (V)=>vi l vi (V)=>v l (ii - V)=>ii l
l ii VII7sub l iii Vsub->V l ii V l iii Vl ii V ll

( i dont remember how to write it correctly , but you can probably help me relearn it here on the forum)

So basically what i'm trying to say, is that Darn That Dream is variations on the classic 6 3 2 5 turn-around except for mes. 3 & 4.

The A is really not that far from Oleo and the other "rhythm variants" either , with a little modulation to the sub dominant , ..to minor parallel and back again... in the middle.
Melody and feel and tempo is ofcourse the huge difference.