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This is a question more to you that have had enough time playing that you may have developed an opinion as to finger setting. Put shortly, are you a thumb player, sometime, all the time, never? Is a thumb on a chord a good thing in some cases, or, is it just a bad habit for the convienence of ease that one should try to eliminate?
I am not familiar with the tool to write chords but for example on a simple 4 finger E shape of a dom7, or for that matter a M7. Do you think a thumb aids of hinders later finger use after chord setting? The background for my question is ease for my fingers who obviously take more time to get certain chords without the thumb, but should I continue with that aproach?
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01-23-2011 06:56 AM
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You probably should have said "Do you use your left thumb?" or "fretting-hand humb?" (to avoid offending leftys) I assume this is what you mean.
No, never.
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hi
occasionally I use my thumb on a D shape chord with a 3rd base note and sometimes sliding the base in for a open G6 chord just for the effect.
I don´t really see any technical use for thumbing in jazzguitar. In bluesguitar it´s an element though.
all best
chev
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I play a classical, so no thumb (though it is very occasionally used even in classical guitar). One reason the LH thumb is an important element in blues playing is that blues = bends (big bends, not just a slightly wobbly note), and that requires a different hand position, not as flat on to the front of the neck, more like a grip. That puts the thumb high on the back of the neck, so it is available for use. But if someone's jazz playing is more like classical than blues (most cases? if they've had any lessons, anyway), I'd have thought it sensible to avoid using the thumb.
Originally Posted by Chev
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I think the other point there JohnRoss, is that blues generally has fairly simple chord shapes, so you don't need the hand position for big stretchy chords.
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Very rarely use my thumb as handy as it might be mine is too short. Friends do use their thumb a lot but they mainly play rock/blues.
But my favorite I was taking a lesson with Ted Greene and bent over and hammered on a bass note with his nose. Nothing would stop Ted from getting the chord he wanted.Last edited by docbop; 01-24-2011 at 01:41 AM.
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Check out Tal Farlow. He uses he left-hand thumb to fret chords -- and even his right-hand middle finger.
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I remember when I interviewed to teach at Berklee, back in 1972, I played a chord bass note with my thumb, and Bill Leavitt made a comment. He said that playing a chord using the thumb to play the bass not causes the wrist to bend back, and that kind of motion can lead to tendonitis. Since then I've avoided that. But I've played with a lot of guys, like Joe Finn in upstate New York, who regularly play chords with thumb playing the bass note, who have no problem. To give Bill Leavitt credit, he did observe that for many people, the bend of the wrist is not a problem, but for some people, it is. I wasn't willing to risk it, so I gave up on the thumb for bass notes. Tuck Andress plays bass notes with the thumb all the time, and gets great sounding voicings, and doesn't seem to have a problem with it.
I remember that the voicing in question on my interview was a major7 with root in the bass and major7 in the lead. The voicing, from the bottom up, was: G F# B D F#. Bill showed me that I could play that using the "George van Epps slant bar," and to that point I still use that fingering.
Steve
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I'm no doctor, but I would expect that it would take a lot of repeated use to develop tendonitis. I think that you'd have to use nearly constantly for hours a day, every day. I don't think reaching around to a few seconds every 10 minutes is going to do it. I think that you'd have to cock your wrist like that and hold it there while playing to even begin doing damage. Originally Posted by SteveCarter
I really don't find that I need to do it often, most of the voicings can be gotten another way. Sometimes I use the thumb because the fingers are busy doing something else. Yeah, the slant barre will help. And sometimes you can wrap your thumb around to the other side of the neck, like a cellist does.
Peace,
Kevin
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I've been blessed with long freakish thumbs and I use them every day.
20 years of playing and no tendonitis. I also play in classical position, though.
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I'm no doctor, but I would expect that it would take a lot of repeated use to develop tendonitis. I think that you'd have to use nearly constantly for hours a day, every day. I don't think reaching around to a few seconds every 10 minutes is going to do it. I think that you'd have to cock your wrist like that and hold it there while playing to even begin doing damage. But there are some rock/pop players who do that so maybe that is where the fear comes from. Originally Posted by SteveCarter
I really don't find that I need to do it often, most of the voicings can be gotten another way. Sometimes I use the thumb because the fingers are busy doing something else. Yeah, the slant barre will help. And sometimes you can wrap your thumb around to the other side of the neck, like a cellist does.
Peace,
Kevin
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Thanks guys. I will continue my practice from here, after my internal board meeting has decided which way I will go.
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To answer the question: It happens but not very often
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Always something new(to me anyway)to learn about - like the Tal Farlow clip. Thanks Stackabones!
I´ve seen jazzguitarplayers use the thumb but more on a random .
thumbs up
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You're welcome, Chev.
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Ted Greene FTW! Originally Posted by docbop
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Couldn't wipe the smile off my face Originally Posted by Stackabones
Tal used the old thumb over pretty consistantly
He had BIG HANDS tho so did Jimi
Only use that if it feels right
I find thumb over OK (I've got fairly big hands)
its partial barres over say 3 strings I'm finding tough
have to ration those !
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I often use my thumb to pick some chords, but one of my teachers said that if i go and try to pass an entrance exam in a jazz conservatory, i MUST avoid using that, and should use barre or other tricks instead.
cheers,
laci
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01-28-2011, 04:32 PM #19Baltar Hornbeek Guest
I like to play the thumb when I mess around with that west side soul sound. Gives an easy muted bass, while trying for those high singin trebles.
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I use my thumb on almost every chord with a bass note on the 6th string.
I think it's a great way to get some of the huge chords.
But I have large hands and skinny fingers.
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I'm very envious of all you players with big hands. Mine are like Jimmy Bruno's but minus the dexterity! My fretting fingers are fairly nimble, but my thumb has virtually no mobility at the base joint, so I cannot wrap my thumb around the neck without pulling my other fingers off the strings. I've tried for years and years to get this down, even working with my guitar teachers to address it. They've just had to throw in the towel and agree, I've got unusual thumbs!
I might have to try that Ted Greene nose trick!
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I never use my thumb. I think it's absolutely freakish, sinful and abominable and against all rules of nature. Just kidding. I just never think of it at all. I've done it but it's not comfortable for me and causes me to over flex my wrist the wrong way. I hold my guitar more upright similar to how Joe Pass did. It's much easier on my wrist and on my spine which is full of arthritis. I'm also originally a Fender bass player and continue to retain that hand position.
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Seems to work well for some... I don't like there not being space between my hand and the edge of the neck, use of the thumb tends to pull hand too close to neck. At least with jazz boxes. But like I said works well for some... Reg
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I never use my thumb to fret. Never have. Not sure why? Hmm....
PJ
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I use regulary the thumb.
I think it's easier for playing the voicings.
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