Drop 2 chord lesson

[merseybeat]

Hi

OK I have gotten out of my lazy spell and am learning as many drop 2 voicings I can! Just a question though about the second Cmaj7 in the drop 2 lesson here
http://www.jazzguitar.be/files/drop-2-chords.pdf




----------------------------------------------
----------8-----------------------------------
----------5-----------------------------------
----------9-----------------------------------
----------7-----------------------------------
----------------------------------------------



OK how many of you can actually grip this? I have only small hands and have no chance in hell!

Eddie

[docbop]

I have small hands and no problem with that voicings there are a lot harder voicing to grab.

[jckoto3]

I have small hands as well, and not too much trouble grabbing that one, though I regularly practice various stretches. You might try playing the voicing as high up on the neck where the frets are closer and gradually sliding the entire shape down the neck as your fingers become more flexible.

You could also try xx2413 (or x x 14 16 13 15) which might be a little easier.

[bako]

I always study a voicing on all possible string group combinations.

X X 2 4 1 3

X 7 9 5 8 X

12 14 10 12 X X

For several reasons but one byproduct is that some will be easier to play on certain string groups.

As jckoto3 says, I start high and work my way down and and try to remember what is presently playable on the gig.
I like to play chords broken into combinations of notes. This is also useful when addressing a chord that maybe I'll never be able to play
because I can let go of note(s) while I grab the rest.

[M-ster]

Slide it down to an Abmaj7! Feel the burn!

[fumblefingers]

who says you really need to grab that chord voicing anyway? why not drop the root and just play 375?

[merseybeat]

who says you really need to grab that chord voicing anyway? why not drop the root and just play 375?

Exactly! Thanks mate!

Good advice from all of you actually! thanks guys.

Eddie

[SteveCarter]

who says you really need to grab that chord voicing anyway? why not drop the root and just play 375?

Yes, those three notes are easier to play, and the three-note chord has its own color, and can be a useful part of a player's palette. But something is lost in this solution, and we can learn by looking at what is lost and what is gained.

What is gained is another voicing for the palette. To my ear, this three-note chord (E-B-G) has a sort of hollow, hauting color, compared to the drop 2. It's instructive to look at the intervals. E - B, perfect fifth. This interval tends to bring out the lower of the two notes. B - G, minor sixth. This is the famous "interval of longing," so expressively used by Romantic composers. If B were the root, there would be a strong tendency of the G to fall to the fifth of B, F#. Of course B is not the root here, and many students and teachers will dismiss my bringing up this point as irrelevant, but I think it is worth considering. E - G, minor tenth. I leave it as an exercise for the reader to evaluate the effect on this interval in this setting. :-)

What is lost is the minor second.
To my ear the richness in the chord color of the drop 2 chord is in large part due to the minor second between the root and the major seventh, which gets lost in this solution.

In some comping situations the root and seventh combination that we find in this drop 2 and be used by themselves as a 2-note chord.

Steve

[jckoto3]

[editorial snip, but the rest of the original post is worth the read]

What is lost is the minor second.
To my ear the richness in the chord color of the drop 2 chord is in large part due to the minor second between the root and the major seventh, which gets lost in this solution.

Steve, I agree entirely. The diatonic 2nd "close" interval is one of my favorites, and especially when it is the minor 2nd between the Major 7th and the tonic, as in this voicing. To the OP, there is another voicing that preserves this interval, but lacks the stability of the 5th. That voicing, for the C Maj7 chord is as follows: x3241x

So we now have a Root, Major 3rd, Major 7th, and Octave on the Root, or 1 3 7 1 voicing. We still have the interval of a diatonic minor 2nd between the 7th degree and the tonic's octave. This is the entire point of this voicing.

Of course, we can change the lowest note for the 5th as such: 3x241x which gives us a perfect Major 7th chord with the 5th in the bass, yet preserving that minor 2nd between the 7th degree and tonic.

And now we have a 5 3 7 1 voicing.

Or do the aforementioned xx2413 (3 7 1 5) voicing, which is harmonically identical to the x7958x voicing in the first post.

It's not quite the same, but it has the character of the minor diatonic 2nd between the Major 7th and the Root. A very pretty chord.

In some comping situations the root and seventh combination that we find in this drop 2 and be used by themselves as a 2-note chord.

Steve

[docbop]

who says you really need to grab that chord voicing anyway? why not drop the root and just play 375?

That depends on how you are using the chord. If solo your probably want the root, if with a bass player can can avoid it, if in a chord sub you might need it. Just pointing out to newer players there are no hard and fast rules just LOTS of options depending on the situation.

[fumblefingers]

Yes, those three notes are easier to play, and the three-note chord has its own color, and can be a useful part of a player's palette. But something is lost in this solution, and we can learn by looking at what is lost and what is gained.

What is gained is another voicing for the palette. To my ear, this three-note chord (E-B-G) has a sort of hollow, hauting color, compared to the drop 2. It's instructive to look at the intervals. E - B, perfect fifth. This interval tends to bring out the lower of the two notes. B - G, minor sixth. This is the famous "interval of longing," so expressively used by Romantic composers. If B were the root, there would be a strong tendency of the G to fall to the fifth of B, F#. Of course B is not the root here, and many students and teachers will dismiss my bringing up this point as irrelevant, but I think it is worth considering. E - G, minor tenth. I leave it as an exercise for the reader to evaluate the effect on this interval in this setting. :-)

What is lost is the minor second.
To my ear the richness in the chord color of the drop 2 chord is in large part due to the minor second between the root and the major seventh, which gets lost in this solution.

In some comping situations the root and seventh combination that we find in this drop 2 and be used by themselves as a 2-note chord.

Steve

sure. but i never said it wasn't a pretty chord. nor did i say "dont ever use it".

my question restated might be:

"what is the criticality of practicing this particular voicing from a practical applicaton point of view?", or "when will it be critical for me to use this chord voicing and why"?

seems to me its not critical. its more like "spicy and useful when you want to".

so its a matter of choice (as are most things jazz wise).

thanks for your practical application example, it was helpful. but you reduced it to a double stop. the four part harmony grip was the OP's concern.

[fumblefingers]

That depends on how you are using the chord. If solo your probably want the root, if with a bass player can can avoid it, if in a chord sub you might need it. Just pointing out to newer players there are no hard and fast rules just LOTS of options depending on the situation.

Agreed. On the other hand even without a bass player the root may be less critical given that this is already a discussion about a first inversion voicing. It might depend on how long your were holding the chord, what beat you were playing it, where it came from and where it will go, etc.

I guess my point would be - learn the most useful/practical voicings first. Then worry about the encyclopedia.

[SteveCarter]

sure. but i never said it wasn't a pretty chord. nor did i say "dont ever use it".

my question restated might be:

"what is the criticality of practicing this particular voicing from a practical applicaton point of view?", or "when will it be critical for me to use this chord voicing and why"?

seems to me its not critical. its more like "spicy and useful when you want to".

so its a matter of choice (as are most things jazz wise).

thanks for your practical application example, it was helpful. but you reduced it to a double stop. the four part harmony grip was the OP's concern.

Oh, I didn't mean do criticize your comments, which were excellent. I just wanted to use them as a jumping-off point for a discussion of some different thoughts that the thread suggested to me.

Also, I agree with your statement that the voicing in question is "spicy and useful." I was just trying to explore some ideas of what makes the chord spicy, how the elements of it contribute to the spiciness, and maybe an alternative approach that would enable the player to use some of that spice in the interim while developing the skill to play the chord in question.

Steve

[max_power]

I agree fully with what others have said. Deciding not to play a common, standard voicing because it's "hard" is lame. You'll learn it with practice, as with anything on the guitar. Plus, IMO that chord inversion is the prettiest-sounding drop 2 chord, so not learning it properly would be quite a shame.

[docbop]

Then worry about the encyclopedia.

You can't learn chords just playing voicings out of an encyclopedia/book you have to use them in a tune. To learn to play music you must play music be it scales, lines, or chords. As soon as you can slowly play a chord then start using it in common chord changes fragment, then in a tune. This way you find voicings that fit together to make moving from one to another easier.

That's the beauty of a book like Ted Greene's Modern Chord Progressions they are voicings that fit together musically and physically.

[merseybeat]

Thanks for all the advice! My problem is I have been playing over 30 years and can solo over jazz changes quite comfortably now, however, my fingers have been programmed to cover the frets 1 for 1 so to shift my first finger back an extra fret is pure contortion for me! I agree its a pretty chord and I will work at it! I do however have an extensive chord collection maj, min, dom, aug, dim7 and all possible extentions/alterations in at least 3 to 4 positions with little thinking!

With bass I have no problem sitting in! I sort of programmed my brain a long time ago to concentrate on what makes me happy! Pain does not make me happy! But I am always looking for new openings on the neck and especially "crutches" and I can see the use in this chord.

That said I always prefere a Maj6/9 as opposed to a Maj7 but thats just me, LAME!

Thanks again though!

Eddie