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I attend Berklee College of Music in Boston, and my current private instructor is Sheryl Bailey (she's really an incredible teacher and one of the coolest, nicest people I've ever met). Out of respect for her, I'm not going to disclose our entire lesson, but she did say something today that I thought you all might want to hear.
We were talking about comping, and her philosophy is brutally simple--so much so that it was sort of a "duh!" moment. I paraphrase:
"Let's say you're playing in a standard quartet--bass, drums, guitar, sax--and the sax is soloing. The bass is holding down the beat (quarter notes, mainly) and the harmony (roots and 5ths, mainly). If the bassist and sax can really play, that's all you need and MORE to get an idea of the changes. They're two counterpoint lines outlining the harmony. YOU ARE UNNECESSARY.
Your job is similar to the drummer's, but less important. The drummer's job is (to an extent) embellish the beat that the bassist is holding down. The general idea is for the kick drum and bass to lock up--we all know this.
The guitar's comping needs to line up or mirror what the snare is doing. It embellishes the drums and the sax at the same time. Think of it orchestration--unnecessary, but orchestration none the less."
I really like this philosophy. It proves that less is truly more. Fewer notes, played less often.
Hopefully this helps you guys out as much as it has me.
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09-15-2010 01:31 AM
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I agree with you about Sheryl, as I encounter her from time to time on another online group. I missed the Jazz Summit this year at NGW, and she was one of the instructors. All my buddies who got to spend the week under her said the same things about her.
Her take on comping sounds very Jim Hallish.
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"the bass locks in with the kick drum"....
Eh, what? Did we just set the Wayback machine to 1935?
Papa Jo Jones and then Kenny Clarke ensured that we would never think of the bass drum in the same way again....
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That's what I was thinking. Well, Jim Hall-ish? Check out the pianoless record(Easy Living) Jim did with alto saxophonist Paul Desmond and the ballads,"When Joanna Loved Me", "I've Grown Accustomed to Her Face" etc. Very nice musical conversation(motifs) between Paul and Jim. His comping compliments and answers Paul's pleadings(solos), rhythmically, harmonically and lastly melodically. It's hard to quote a teacher outside the context of the lesson.
Originally Posted by NSJ
Last edited by ChuckCorbis; 09-15-2010 at 06:34 PM.
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Hey, Bigdaddy.
Could you tell me what tune this is? It's lovely!
Thanx in advance.
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Originally Posted by Claudi
He already did. Suicide is Painless. AKA the theme from M*A*S*H.
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Hey Smitty... the point your teacher might be setting up for you ...is you need to listen... there are unlimited techniques for comping, the more your aware of, the better you'll be able to make the choice of how interact in the musical setting of the moment. Congratulation on being at Berklee and with great teacher... Best Reg
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Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
Sorry, I thought that he was philosophysing. Thanks for telling me.
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Wow...totally different response than I expected.
Yes, she's telling me one philosophy of many, but the point here is that it's one that I thought maybe you guys hadn't thought of and maybe it could help you.
The bass/kick drum lining up is totally normal...I really don't understand what's so weird about that
The way I hear it, the drummer's kick accents what the bassist is doing, which creates a sort of "hybrid" sound...a drum with a pitch, or a pitch with a lot more guts to it. This is far more prevalent in funk and rock, but still, you see it happen in jazz.
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09-17-2010, 08:08 AM #10jeffstocksmusic GuestThanks Smitty. I have learned (the hard way) over time that less is much more in terms of comping. So, I think she is right on the money and love the way she explains it.Yes, she's telling me one philosophy of many, but the point here is that it's one that I thought maybe you guys hadn't thought of and maybe it could help you.
BTW>>I am fricking jealous you get to hang w/ Sheryl. She is beastly good.
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For sure the bass/kick relation is sort of carved in stone, notwithstanding where fusion and other stuff has led. Too much two and four stuff has you sounding like Bluegrass, if really cliched. 'T's why I like Old Time fiddle music, coming down HARD on the One,,like soul. Anyway, before talking myself into a corner concerning things of which I know little whereof, I'll just say, it's why, when recording,(mixing, really) you take the bass compressor and sidechain it to the kick drum(cuz they're both hitting at the same time,) to make the bass duck for ever so a fraction of a second to get that sound you just 'know' when you hear it. Then you're rocking,,,er 'um blowin', as you lay down the rhythm line. Specially when it's a good jazz drummer. Jazz sets being smaller, they are so delicious, with a good drummer aboard. I have a hole in my right eardrum, and I go nuts around loud drummers. A hard(rock style) snare hit can lay me down for the count. It's a good gauge of playing volume, though.
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I haven't posted until now, but your original post has got me thinking in the last few days, and I think it does help me quite a bit - I think in the way you intended/expected, so cheers for sharing Sheryl Bailey's excellent advice. Plus it does seem to help to know that I can be effective just adding sparse accent chords sometimes, or even that it's OK to stop playing altogether for a chorus or two! I think when you first start playing with a band or in a live situation, there can be a natural assumption that you have to play constantly to justify your being there, so it's good to state that this is not the case. Originally Posted by Smitty
Wow...totally different response than I expected.
Yes, she's telling me one philosophy of many, but the point here is that it's one that I thought maybe you guys hadn't thought of and maybe it could help you.
The bass/kick drum lining up is totally normal...I really don't understand what's so weird about that The way I hear it, the drummer's kick accents what the bassist is doing, which creates a sort of "hybrid" sound...a drum with a pitch, or a pitch with a lot more guts to it. This is far more prevalent in funk and rock, but still, you see it happen in jazz.
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What is this the Berklee Booster Club. All the cheerleading in the world isn't gonna make me agree with this "locking in with the kick drum" stuff. Come on boys and girls, you've had enough milk and cookies.
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It's been one of the ABCs of jazz that the pianists and guitarists lock into the drummer's ride cymbal (those ubiquitous "broken triplets") and, on 2 and 4, the high hats . Hence, the fundamental 3 against 2 of the basic pulse that helps make jazz.....jazz.
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I thought this article from Frank Potenza's website (one of my favorite guitarists) is rather good and maybe relevant to this discussion. It relates more to solo comping however.
More about frank
•1994 - "Guitar & Bass Essentials," Kawai Music Press
•Excerpt from "Solo Guitar Accompaniment" an article in Tune Up Magazine
After many years of playing solo guitar accompaniment in situations involving both vocalists and instrumentalists, I feel that I can offer some helpful guidelines.
Developing the ability to provide sensitive and sympathetic accompaniment is an important and often neglected skill area that requires special consideration. The shared musical approach introduces a dynamic that can be compared to the team effort in any situation. Placing oneself in a position in which it is vitally important to accommodate another point of view can be unsettling to say the least, but the rewards of this challenge can also be inspiring and uniquely satisfying.
It may seem obvious, but the first step is to know the song well. This means having a working knowledge of where the chord changes take place in relation to the melodic sequence. Begin with a set of basic ("stock") chord changes, eventually working up to the use of substitute and interpolated chords, reharmonization techniques, and other harmonic embellishments.
You should be able to play or sing the melody, and also familiarize yourself with the lyrics. Their emotional content can be an invaluable source of insight and direction. Jazz masters have often cited their knowledge of the lyrics of a tune as being an indispensable reference, not only for the obvious topical aid they provide, but also for their value as a guide for phrasing and interpretation of the melody.
Be sure that you are well aware of the points at which you (as the accompanist) must sound the next chord to provide the soloist with the necessary cue to begin the next phrase, especially when playing rubato (out of time). Control of the ebb and flow of the time is a cooperative endeavor in rubato playing that requires much trial and error and could be compared to the process of learning ballroom dancing with a partner. The pushing and pulling and all of the uncomfortable feelings that the time is moving in spurts are overcome only with experience and perseverance.
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Thank you! That right there ladies and gentlemen is the TRUTH. God bless Frank Potenza.
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That is pretty much what I was taught decades ago as a young R&B player. The bass gives tone to the bass drum and the guitar gives tone to the snare drum. Originally Posted by Smitty
I been checking out Sheryl's classes at Mikes's Master Classes and she is an incredible teacher.
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comping: less = more
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There is no one answer for comping... Being aware of the harmonic rhythm and rhythm accent patterns, (the groove), of any tune should be basic knowledge... that's where you start, the less is more concept works, but "more" may be required. Makes me understand why some use rhythm tracks. I covered junk gigs for over 30 tears, still do, basic accents patterns, lock and cover... pretty.... well there not the most exciting sessions. I guess I'll simply say if you don't have the basics down, don't try and imply on other levels, but there are more than boom chucks... You need to be aware of the single bar, two bar, 4 bar etc... phrasing. The form doesn't always simply repeat... Different sections of the form may have different accent patterns (groove)... there are many standard rhythmic and harmonic turnarounds or single line grooves which help tighten up sections. On simple tunes, many times you introduce a feel, plant a seed so later when the rhythm section actually goes into that groove, it feels like tension release. These and many more techniques are used rhythmically and then you get into harmonic rhythm and melodic use... Interaction between rhythm section players is what makes tunes groove... Or you could just use a rhythm track... no comparison... a problem to me is.... in more recent times many don't have the basic down.
I'm a jazz player who covers other styles. When you begin to talk about jazz comping... it's a much bigger pond. But if you understand what is required to lock or groove, it becomes much easier to begin... Of course there are always gigs where we only start and end together... that really takes a different audience... Lets amend our one liner... less is more... sometimes. Best Reg
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Sorry guys I think you are missing the point.As a guitarist you have to think like pianist-you are there to provide feeds to the soloist to give him ideas to build on-if they are good the bass player and drummer will pick up on this and deliver the groove.
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It depends on your relationship with the soloist. If you start feeding back to the soloist all their doing then their outside stuff just became inside making the changes. Some soloists will want you to follow their lead other won't. Simple is always a safe starting point. Also it depends on the instrumentation if there are other harmony instruments then a challenge to stay out of each others way. Like piano player their favorite range to play is the guitar's only range so have to listen. Originally Posted by jazzuki
Sorry guys I think you are missing the point.As a guitarist you have to think like pianist-you are there to provide feeds to the soloist to give him ideas to build on-if they are good the bass player and drummer will pick up on this and deliver the groove.
So don't think anyone is missing the point there is a lot to being a good accompanist.
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Hey Jazzuki... some great points... but there are many more points. I've made it a point to not think like pianist, more to the point... not try and sound like a piano, when I cover or play piano gigs, I'll play piano. You might be missing the point that we, ...I understand very well the locking mechanics of the rhythm section. But that is simply the beginning of what we do,( the rhythm section)....For most of the music we play... most solos have already been played very well and recorded... we as soloist or others are trying to recreate the music or our personal version of. There are standard versions and the soloist usually gives a hint of what direction there/we're going. Part of your job as rhythm section player is to be aware of that hint, and there not all basic R&B grooves... I do personally dig R&B, funk, blues etc... but they don't always work. I'm taking it for granted that your ears are already together... I'm off, sorry to cut short... to be continued... Reg
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