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The chord progression to "Out Of Nowhere" is pretty standard except those Eb's:
| GMaj7 | GMaj7 | Eb9 | Eb9 | GMaj7 | GMaj7 | Bmin7 | E7(b9) |
| AMin7 | E7(b9) | AMin7 | AMin7 | Eb7 | Eb7 | D7sus | D7 ||
Can anyone explain those Eb's? How would you play over them? Thanks!
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06-11-2010 02:09 PM
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| GMaj7 | GMaj7 | Bbm7| Eb7 | GMaj7 | GMaj7 | Bmin7 | E7(b9) |
Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
| AMin7 | E7(b9) | AMin7 | AMin7 | Bbm7 | Eb7 | Am7 | D7 ||
Treat the highlighted measures as ii7-V7 in their respective keys.
Bbm7-Eb7= Ab major
Am7-D7=G major
Regards,
monk
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I don't know the reasoning behind why they are there, but I have always played lydian dominant over the Eb's in bars 3 and 4. As far as the last 4 bars, I usually switch to a g blues scale kind of thing right before the d7.
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I love the tune. My guess is the Eb dominant is the tune modulating up a half step to Ab before returning to G. Soloing in Ab works well and I also solo in Cm(Ebmaj), use a whole tone or diminished scale or a augmented or diminished arpeggio run.
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I like to look at the Gma7 as being the same as a B mi; then the Eb 7th is just a II-V without the V; so over G ma 7th, a B minor pent. works, then just move sown a half-step, and Bb minor pent. works for the Eb7th. It sounds cool b/c the chords are moving in a larger, different interval than your lines over them.
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Ah yes, expanding a dom7 into a ii7-V7 is always a good idea. (And that D7sus in the chart was rather arbitrary, too.) Originally Posted by monk
But in measures 1-6 you're saying there is just a modulation up and then back a half step? G -> Ab -> G? Kind of like a speed bump? i was wondering if there's anything deeper going on. I guess there doesn't have to be!
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This is Emily Remler's "lydian dominant" over a non-resolving Dom7? The Eb is certainly not resolving there! Originally Posted by jeffstritt
I can see how that would work, just don't push too hard playing a D note against the Eb7, right? Originally Posted by jeffstritt
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Nothing mysterious, although you are welcome to use the Ab melodic minor scale as well
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I think you just covered all the bases, there! Originally Posted by Gambrosius1984
Soloing in Eb major over Eb7 seems to be cheating, just a little.
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Me too, sometimes. Originally Posted by jseaberry
You mean without the ii? In his reply, Monk was kind enough to provide it Originally Posted by jseaberry
I like that half-step down sound, even thought the keys are going a half step up (G->Ab). Originally Posted by jseaberry
Note that Bb jazz minor = Eb lydian dominant, which has been suggested, too.
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Ah, like Eb7 wants to resolve to Ab minor? interesting... Originally Posted by ronjazz
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Thanks for the responses, everyone! I guess the Eb chord is just a bit of a side step -- it just is. As far as ideas, I was thinking it's interesting because you can think of going either up or down a half step:
GMaj7 -> Eb7, DOWN: you can even think of the GMaj7 as a Emin9, then most of the chord tones go down a half step:
E G B D #F --> Eb G Bb Db Fnat
GMaj7 -> Eb7, UP: the modulation is going from key G to Ab.
And since you return, GMaj7 -> Eb7 -> GMaj7, you have the same thing in reverse, so you can try to make this sound like:
DOWN then UP, or
DOWN then DOWN, or
UP then DOWN, or
UP then UP.
Neat! I'm going to have to see which of those work for me.
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Fun tune huh?
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Yup. Not too tricky or too fast, but lets you try out some ideas. Originally Posted by jeffstritt
Fun tune huh?
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From the Berklee site:
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Disclaimer: I wasn't there when this tune was composed however I'll offer one possibility for the harmonic structure.
This song was written in the pre-swing, pre-bop year of 1931. At that time, the I chord of choice was either I or I6. The I major 7th chord was considered a dissonant chord that had to be resolved to I major 6.
With that groundwork in place, it's possible that Johnny Green used common tone voice-leading to arrive at the original composed progression of G, Eb7, G, E7.
Here's a couple of examples:
G6 Eb7 G6 E7
------------------
--3---2---3---3---
--4---3---4---4---
--2---1---2---2---
------------------
--3---3---3---4---
G6 Eb7 G6 E7
------------------
--5---4---5---5---
--7---6---7---7---
--5---5---5---6---
-------------------
--7---6---7---7---
Note that common voices are held while the other voices move 1/2 step. As I said earlier, I don't know for certain that this is how it was composed but this is a technique that's used routinely in composition.
Regards,
monk
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Gmaj is I, The Eb7 is sub V of V or D7, Typ. use BbMM. If you look at melody in last 4 bars of 1st ending, you'll see the A natural, which would imply BbMM. B-7 to E7b9 is II-V of A-, The melody says A Har. Min. The C would be the b13 0f E7b9 which is from A H.M. All pretty standard Modal interchange usage in jazz. You rarely play one scale or collection of notes very long in jazz. If you want a real analysis let me know... Best Reg
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Can I have a go, please? I'm not particularly good at this sort of thing, so if I'm talking rubbish, someone say so and I'll shut up, but I don't think it's that complicated. Agreed, the Bb jazz minor will account for all the notes, harmony and melody, but the tune doesn't actually move out of G, it just goes to G minor. The only harmony note which doesn't fit that is the Db in the Eb9 chord. So I'd treat it as a G natural minor with a flat fifth, which is almost a blues scale.
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Monk,
I haven't chimed is as I couldn't come up with anything... I really like your analysis, good thinking.
Like you said who knows what the composer was thinking.
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Hi there BDLH, I thought that you would be the answering man and not the asking man! Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
/R
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Of course, as far as notes go, Bb jazz minor = Eb lydian dominant = the G natural minor w/ b5 you mention here. Originally Posted by JohnRoss
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Far from it! And it's interesting to see other people's takes on it. Originally Posted by GuitaRoland
Hi there BDLH, I thought that you would be the answering man and not the asking man!
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By the way, we were talking about 6/9 chords in another thread. I said they sound more major than dominant to me, but playing this Eb chord as a Eb6/9 works for me since it's not a resolving dominant.
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For me the 6/9 always felt like static chord leading nowhere. Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
/R
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Typically you look at melodies first to further spell out harmony, then go to function and eventually fill in with what ever you can do. Like I mentioned before you usually don't play one set of notes over jazz tunes... but you can, if that's what you hear... I don't think the improvisation police will bust you...Best Reg
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