Playing melody in thirds, fourths, etc.

[pamosmusic]

I like how streamlined this is. Close together and easy to play.

Jeff Matz.

Bringing the Gospel of Ed Bickert to the people since 2006.

[mr. beaumont]

Jeff Matz.

Bringing the Gospel of Ed Bickert to the people since 2006.

[pamosmusic]

Hallowed be his name.

[pamosmusic]

Thanks. The reason I'm not necessarily giving 3-note voicings myself (which I could) is I was wondering whether you had a piano or organ. You don't, which means small voicings are going to sound a little thin. And I see you're playing, more or less, full chords which are making it sound much better.

It's also very difficult reducing full chords by just removing the root (so as not to double the bass), it would almost mean starting out learning chords all over again. Actually I don't think it matters if you double the bass much, no one's counting. You could always just strum the top four strings!

So I'd say what you're doing now is pretty good. I'm sure a really excellent, experienced comper could produce something very impressive but that's another matter. You can learn all that stuff as you go along.

If I can say something else... A lot of recordings with guitarists don't have them playing little bitty sound bites, you can hear those chords in the background really doing their stuff, especially with vocalists.

Also, in bands where they've got a guitar, you can see the player using various 3 or 4 notes chords and inversions - but that's usually with a full band for the backing.

If I can find some recordings to illustrate all this I'll post them.

This is the opposite of my experience.

Listening to guitar players play with pianos, they often don’t play at all. When they do, the number of notes is whatever it is but they play very little and they play sharp repetitive rhythms. Sort of like a dance band riffing, rather than a jazz orchestra playing big rich backgrounds on a ballad.

Listen to Wes on Smokin. What is he doing when Wynton Kelly solos?

Grant Green on the Sonny Clark quartets?

As for the three note voicings being thin, if there’s a piano player, I’m usually playing nothing at all — or maybe a one or two note counter melody. If I’m the only chording instrument (which is usually) I’m almost always playing three notes.

[ragman1]

Here's the band playing Four.

Thanks. The reason I'm not necessarily giving 3-note voicings myself (which I could) is I was wondering whether you had a piano or organ. You don't, which means small voicings are going to sound a little thin. And I see you're playing, more or less, full chords which are making it sound much better.

It's also very difficult reducing full chords by just removing the root (so as not to double the bass), it would almost mean starting out learning chords all over again. Actually I don't think it matters if you double the bass much, no one's counting. You could always just strum the top four strings!

So I'd say what you're doing now is pretty good. I'm sure a really excellent, experienced comper could produce something very impressive but that's another matter. You can learn all that stuff as you go along.

If I can say something else... A lot of recordings with guitarists don't have them playing little bitty sound bites, you can hear those chords in the background really doing their stuff, especially with vocalists.

Also, in bands where they've got a guitar, you can see the player using various 3 or 4 notes chord and inversions - but that's usually with a full band for the backing.

If I can find some recordings to illustrate all this I'll post them.

(edit)

By the way, when the bass is soloing you don't need to hit the one all the time. Syncopated stuff in between is better :-)

[ragman1]

As for the three note voicings being thin, if there’s a piano player

There wasn't, that was my point. You're not talking about what was on Allan's Facebook video. Or, in fact, what I was saying about it.

[pamosmusic]

As for the three note voicings being thin, if there’s a piano player, I’m usually playing nothing at all — or maybe a one or two note counter melody. If I’m the only chording instrument (which is usually) I’m almost always playing three notes.

See above

[pamosmusic]

There wasn't, that was my point. You're not talking about what was on Allan's Facebook video.

I know. My point was that three note voicings don’t sound thin. If there’s a piano player, I’m playing even less.

The operative thing about Allan’s video to me isn’t that there is no piano player. It’s that there is no drummer.

Thats a different story and would suggest more of a rhythm guitar vibe.

[mr. beaumont]

I know. My point was that three note voicings don’t sound thin. If there’s a piano player, I’m playing even less.

The operative thing about Allan’s video to me isn’t that there is no piano player. It’s that there is no drummer.

Thats a different story and would suggest more of a rhythm guitar vibe.

Yeah, I would be all over a four on the floor thing on...er...Four (aside from the head that is, where you gotta do the hits) but then you all know my current obsession...

Allan's Charleston thing is kind of working too, though I think that was boring him after a while...

At any rate, as a horn/bass/guitar trio, bass is doing their part to keep time, really...guitar's gotta have some forward push...

[Tal_175]

Ed Bickert is a great example of the type of comping I was talking about. He used chordal phrases tastefully in his comping and turned the performances into improvised orchestral arrangements.

[emanresu]

Four is a bad example because it is so tight. The melody is the culprit. Everyone knows how it goes and the harmony is is almost unchangeable.

[pamosmusic]

Yeah, I would be all over a four on the floor thing on...er...Four (aside from the head that is, where you gotta do the hits) but then you all know my current obsession...

Allan's Charleston thing is kind of working too, though I think that was boring him after a while...

At any rate, as a horn/bass/guitar trio, bass is doing their part to keep time, really...guitar's gotta have some forward push...

Super fun texture. I’m playing with bass and sax next Thursday. So that’ll be fun.

[mr. beaumont]

Four is a bad example because it is so tight. The melody is the culprit. Everyone knows how it goes and the harmony is is almost unchangeable.

But you don't have to change the harmony to be interesting...

[emanresu]

Isn't harmony a scale thing, overall?
I mean, when you go up and down the chords in diatonic (as the original tune has it), it really doesn't change much at all?
But when changing the scale, key, mode... that's where the confusion gets born.

edit: oops. not "key". ugh.

[emanresu]

I mean. What I really mean.

When probing all the original plain harmony, not changing the scale - it is safe. Sometimes sounds bland, occasionally "interesting"

But the trouble starts when the scale gets changed. For your chords. edit: by your chords

[Jimmy Smith]

To sound interesting when comping, you don't have to clash with the harmony of the tune and band or change the base chords. You can embellish the chords somewhat, but it requires zero changing of the chord with respect to the root note. You guys really need hep with understanding chord melody.

[emanresu]

Hep? Haven't seen him for ages here.

[Jimmy Smith]

I hate making videos because they're a waste of my time, noone cares, I'm nervous and can't talk well, and they represent my playing poorly, but I'm going to have to explain chord melody to you miscreants.

[mr. beaumont]

Quick ideas:

[AllanAllen]

I hate making videos because they're a waste of my time, noone cares, I'm nervous and can't talk well, and they represent my playing poorly, but I'm going to have to explain chord melody to you miscreants.

Don't do it for me. I don't give a shit about chord melody. I'll throw my guitar in the river before I play a solo gig.

[AllanAllen]

By the way, when the bass is soloing you don't need to hit the one all the time. Syncopated stuff in between is better :-)

He requested that, since this was our first gig without a drummer.

[Jimmy Smith]

Don't do it for me. I don't give a shit about chord melody. I'll throw my guitar in the river before I play a solo gig.

That's how you comp without the same shape for every chord.

[AllanAllen]

That's how you comp without the same shape for every chord.

That's it, I'm going to the river...

[AllanAllen]

Quick ideas:

Thanks, lots of good stuff in this. I never thought to do two chromatic chords in a row. Db to D to land on Eb. I've got it in my head that I need diminished approach chords from my skimming of the Barry Harris stuff.

Really overall I think I need to play with people more and try things when I get bored, embrace the clams as I figure stuff out.

[pamosmusic]

That's it, I'm going to the river...

Good thing he's talking nonsense.