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03-21-2018 01:43 AM
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Chris Whiteman, as always you came up with a great arrangement. I've spent a lot of time watching your performances on YouTube and am always blown away.
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Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
Playing single-string over a backing track is not solo guitar.
You are not in the least bit wrong to state the obvious. Ganging up on you to make you feel that way is completely out of order.
(EDIT: I see Gramps has apologised to you so this post is updated!).
Also, why are there now two 'Tenderly' threads? One is enough and all versions can be posted there. Personally I see no point in duplicating everything twice, if that's what's happening.
And, to other posters - no, I'm not wrong, and you know I'm not. In case anyone is tempted!Last edited by ragman1; 03-21-2018 at 08:44 AM.
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Gramps -
As a matter of fact, you'd play the chord-melody head better without the backing because it would loosen it up. Probably chord-melody arrangements like that should be played more freely because it makes room for more feeling. Playing them metronomically isn't always the best way.
It's a good arrangement and a solo performance would probably improve it, as it happens.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
You may be right Ragman. I just look at all of these threads as learning experiences. There isn't a track that I've done that I don't think could have been done better but I learn so much by doing them that I don't worry about the glitches too much. I figure I'll be playing these songs for the rest of my life but hopefully I'll play them in more interesting ways as I learn more about playing.
I think the bottom line from my perspective is these threads are for people of differing skill levels all sharing ideas and I don't see how a click track changes that. OTOH, I'll try to follow whatever rules others feel are appropriate.
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Originally Posted by Gramps
I think we all go through thinking nothing we do is much good! Seems a bit par for the course.
I don't honestly think you, or anyone of us, should follow rules. Who is to lay them down? If you feel a click track, or even a backing, keeps you on track, so be it. Why not? Whatever helps.
But I do mean what I say about the head of your Tenderly. It was so chordal (and well played) that I thought 'why's he got the backing track on?' Then you did the solo stuff, of course.
But there is a point in playing it more freestyle. Not too loose, but enough to make it sound as though it's being played rather being 'repeated'. Does that make sense?
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By the way, knowing the lyrics of the tune helps:
The evening breeze caressed the trees tenderly
The trembling trees embraced the breeze tenderly... (it gets a bit sweaty after that so I won't go on )
A bit of caressing never hurts :-)
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Hi all,
I'm very sorry I disappeared for a while and never started thread #3. However, I'm sincerely thankful to Gramps for getting it going without me and for everyone encouraging him to do so! I'm actually very tickled that this concept has taken on a life of its own!!
I'm an independent accountant by trade and this is my absolutely craziest busy time of the year. I'm working constantly 7 days a week right now. However I still love hanging out here as a diversion from the work whenever I can.
When thread #2 sputtered out with no playing contributions or posts of any kind for two weeks, I figured that either 1) the concept was sputtering; 2) Here's That Rainy Day wasn't all that popular, or 3) perhaps a month is too long between starting new threads. I tend to think it may be #3. In any event I started thinking then that I'd let everything sit for a while and come back out swinging when I could with thread #3
However, I did check in last Sunday I believe and I saw there was serious talk of skipping Tenderly and moving on to Shadow of Your Smile. So I then planned to jump in the first chance and start up a new thread with SOYS and make my own contribution to the practical standards Tenderly thread. Then today I checked and saw the train had left the station without me!!! I won't let that happen again!
My only comment about Gramps starting the new thread is that the guidelines weren't posted for new participants. Also I like to include a lead sheet. Do you think you could add those to your first post here Gramps? I'll include them in a separate post
By the way, as far as backing tracks, my original thought is that these threads are Solo Guitar and not really chord melody with accompaniment in a band setting. My personal interest was in hearing how people play with no other accompaniment. Having said that, I always follow my personal rule in life which is there are no rules! If someone's interpretation includes accompaniment I'd certainly rather have them participate than not.
Thanks everybody!
Paul
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Gramps, thanks for starting this thread up!
Would you see if you are able to edit your original thread post with the guidelines below and also add the lead sheet I have here? If not it won't be the end of the world.
Thanks again!
Hello All,
Welcome to the Solo Guitar Arranging Group! This is song thread #3, Tenderly, which was one of the finalists in a poll by the group.
Players of all levels and abilities are welcome to participate here. Please join us!
The idea is to start a different song thread periodically and encourage everyone to post a video or recording of how they would play/arrange that particular tune for solo guitar (i.e. with no other accompaniment).
Group Guidelines
Here are general guidelines for the group.
1. All levels of players are strongly encouraged to participate, from beginners on up. We hope the group may even be rewarded occasionally, if not often, with contributions by seasoned pros and prominent guitarists. However, no matter your skill level you are strongly encouraged to join in. If you are open to hearing constructive comments and suggestions from the group, indicate #c&cwelcome in the title of your post.
2. The arrangement can be easy and simple, or elaborate and complex, or simply playing it on the fly. It’s all about each person’s own interpretation and approach.
3. After posting the arrangement, each person is encouraged to also post (in a video, on a recording or in writing) their approach to the song, or to specific parts of the song. This explanatory content can be in as much or as little detail as desired (or none at all). If the person is seeking specific help from the group this is a good place to ask for it.
4. Written notations of the arrangement are certainly not expected. Each person can decide how to handle any such requests from the group.
5. Future song selections and frequency will be made based on suggestions received and what appears to be a consensus. I’ll try and post a lead sheet for each song selection if that would be helpful. Of course, people can still play the song in any key (or keys) they choose.
6. Encouragement to each person for their contributions are encouraged. Unless the performer indicates a willingness to hear criticisms (see #1 above), participants should not offer criticisms of individual performances. Advice should only be offered if the person specifically asks for it. Even then resist criticizing anything to do with the interpretation or "artsy" side of the performance and comment on techniques and tips instead (for example playing a particular passage or suggesting chord embellishments, etc.)
7. Participation in group discussions is encouraged for all, even if a person does not want to personally post their own arrangements at present for whatever reason.
Goals of Group
1. To encourage each other to become better solo guitar players and to share knowledge and skills in a friendly and helpful setting. If we individually work up an arrangement and then bring it to the group, it will be invaluable to see how people handled the song or specific parts of the song. We will all enhance our guitar skills and vocabulary. New ideas or approaches would even be useful to the most advanced players.
2. To increase our repertoire of solo guitar songs.
3. To build confidence in playing for others, sharing our skills and in recording ourselves.
Since there is a new thread for each song, there is no time pressure to keep up with the group. People can post to each song thread when they’re ready to.
The Days of Wine and Roses and Here's That Rainy Day were the group’s first two songs. There are separate thread for those. If you want to post a video or recording of those songs, it’s never too late. Please do so in those threads and help keep them going as well!
I've attached a lead sheet of Tenderly if that would be helpful.
We hope everyone will join in and participate however you choose.
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Originally Posted by PaulW10
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Paul, you are forgiven but don't let it happen again ha ha!!!
Personally, I am not a fan of backing tracks at all. I much prefer chord melody guitar played solo....show me what you've got.....at any level.....without help from anyone or anything....that's the challenge! That's why I love playing singles in tennis and table tennis. As far as rules are concerned there is chaos without them. Imagine trying to drive to work without rules. No backing tracks.....please!!!
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Jazzdan is right; backing tracks would inevitably cause unfathomable chaos
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Originally Posted by kris
Attached is another rendition from there which may be better?
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Originally Posted by kris
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The old ‘557 Jazz standards’ fakebook is usually pretty good for these tunes:
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It would be nice to get a little feedback one way or another. It's not very hard to hit the like button.....I do it all the time. Constructive comments are good too. I always believed that a forum was where people gathered together and everyone gave his input on a particular matter at hand, not just the chosen few. Come on guys......get involved. It takes a lot of effort to come up with an arrangement and then practice practice practice!!!
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In my mind the Bb and Ab 7 chords can both pull to the tonic, but there’s a big difference to me. For instance, I’ve been playing an F7b9 13 chord in that spot whatever the hell that is lol, but I don’t really like the standard dom or tritone sub etc in that spot.
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Originally Posted by jazzdan
I missed the backing track. Sorry, just a joke. ;-)
I get the impression that you and I share a love for this material and find it a real challenge. With that said I'm probably not qualified to make suggestions but you asked for it. lol
1. Are you thinking of this song as being in 3/4? (I'm probably wrong but it sounds like your playing the A part in 4/4 and the B part in 3/4.
2. When you come to the last measure of the B section and have 4 beats of D7 you can think of it as a ii,V to add more color. Maybe play A-11 to G#7b5 or since the D note in the melody should be dying out by the last two beats you can create more tension with A-11 to G#13. (Bottom line. Look for places to sub a ii, V so you can create varying degrees of tension/release.)
I'll leave it at that. I really hate talking about chord names. I can hear them but I can't be sure that I'm naming them properly. I just think of them as major, minor or dominant and let my ear decide the alterations. (That's what you get for looking for advice on the web)
I hope this helps and I'm sure others will chime in if I misnamed the chords.
Keep up the good work.
PS. I agree with Joe. Even if you don't want to have a track for performance you might try practicing with one.
PPS. My favorite part of your track was your satisfied smile at the end. That is the reason we push ourselves to play music.Last edited by Gramps; 03-22-2018 at 11:00 AM.
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I agree with Pappy. The part that settles into 3/4 was my favorite part
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You're probably right but a metronome is like eating liver...it may be good for you but hard to stomach so I'm sure I'll never use one
Last edited by jazzdan; 03-22-2018 at 12:55 PM.
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Jeese I’m not sure if it’s even possible to get better without ever facing that feeling. progess would be slow to say the least. Burying one’s head in the sand never helped anyone.
However, enjoyment is the most important thing— no need to punish yourself
then again i think it was you who said somehong like “no backing tracks, show me what you got!” implying playing without one is harder
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Originally Posted by jazzdan
I am curious though. Was I wrong about the 4/4 - 3/4 change? Were you trying to do that?
(I don't often get the opportunity to make analogies using liver, metronome and tennis. A red-letter day indeed!)Last edited by Gramps; 03-22-2018 at 12:43 PM.
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Originally Posted by jazzdan
Just messin' with you. Like I said before, keep up the good work.
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I wasn't trying purposely to shift from 4/4 to 3/4 but maybe I did. To me, what I did sounded good at the time in my head.....I smiled because I got through it....some of those chords are tough and I like to smile a lot....good for the soul. Tennis is played in a rectangle and I don't believe music has to be played in a box like tennis....thanks for the comments....Dan
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I wasn't implying that....I just don't like backing tracks because they detract from the solo guitar. I'm sure it is plenty difficult to play with one
Favorite Jazz guitarist book
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