Anyone not care for chord melody?

[Nate Miller]

Man, solo banjo, are you kidding?? My gf runs away from the house when I'm practicing my tenor banjo...

you city folk crack me up

[matt.guitarteacher]

Man, solo banjo, are you kidding?? My gf runs away from the house when I'm practicing my tenor banjo, ahaha. She just hates the sound of it, and she's not alone. It's one of this instruments, needs a band to blend in.

my family members love the sound of it and love the boy who plays it as well. however, none of that changes the fact that there is a music stand permanently left on the porch for practice. :-)

the blessings and burdens of being a banjo player.



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[ronjazz]

Nobody who is good at solo playing hates it.

Van Eps conceived of his 7-string guitar as a "lap piano".

Solo guitar is much more difficult than linear improv guitar.

Players who can successfully play with groups or by themselves are musicians.

Jazz is generally an interactive, social art form, but most jazz musicians spend thousands of hours practicing by themselves.

Most of the great jazz guitarists could play very beautiful solo guitar.

If you can't enjoy the solo flights of Smith, Pass, Metheny, Van Eps, Hall, Greene, Frisell, Martino,
Montgomery, Taylor, Burrell, Lubambo, Vanelli, Benson, Rabello or Klugh, it says far more about you than about them.

[TH]

Sid Jacobs has a mini comedy routine about guitarists and their sad and pathetic desire to impress piano players with their "chord melodies " .

Pianist envy

[drbhrb]

The reason we treat "chord melody" as a separate endeavor is the nature of the guitar. "Chords" on the guitar can be solely a matter of comping, or even just strumming away. Droves of guitar players never do other than that. Then there is line-playing, when the guitar functions like a horn.

The distinctive role of the guitar either as the solo voice, or the sole "polyphonic" voice, combined with the technical challenge of playing, or improvising, a melody with sufficient chordal support to be significant, makes this worth focusing on as a separate endeavor. You can comp like Freddie Green, play lines like Charlie Christian, and fall flat on your your face playing alone or in a group with just a bass and drums, if you can't do this. So we have to teach the peculiar challenge of a complex, interesting melodic line carried by a harmonic substructure and supported by the lineaments of a bass line.

That's hard to do on the guitar, especially in an improvisational context, and so yes, I think it's worth focused attention. And for every bedroom video of some YouTuber playing his basic CM arrangement, there are many others who can't even do that, and those bedroom video stars have their little crew of friends and family who love to hear them play. Maybe they weren't interested in anyone else even knowing about it.

See this is at least part of the reason it rubs me the wrong way. "It's hard" is not really an excuse that other instrumentalists use. It's the same kind of mentality that makes it okay for guitarist to suck at reading (it's hard - there are 4 middle Cs! wah) or that it's okay for guitarist to just memorize chord shapes/fingerings and not think about the notes they are playing.


As for the greats doing solo guitar, that's all and well but I'd rather hear them in a group. Personal preference.

[destinytot]

"It sounds good" is reason enough for me:

[lawson-stone]

It's a suggestion to write parts for a small chamber music ensemble to replace backing tracks (such as BIAB).

And where should I find this chamber music ensemble in rural central Kentucky?

Also... I don't want to get into writing parts. I am a hobby player with a demanding day job, a 10 acre horse farm and a very active family life and social circle. No way am I taking time away from basic practice to learn to write parts, bro!

You guys who live in urban music meccas have no clue what it's like trying to do this stuff in the rural midwest and south.

[lawson-stone]

See this is at least part of the reason it rubs me the wrong way. "It's hard" is not really an excuse that other instrumentalists use. It's the same kind of mentality that makes it okay for guitarist to suck at reading (it's hard - there are 4 middle Cs! wah) or that it's okay for guitarist to just memorize chord shapes/fingerings and not think about the notes they are playing.


As for the greats doing solo guitar, that's all and well but I'd rather hear them in a group. Personal preference.

I didn't say "its hard" is an excuse. I said the peculiar difficulty merits separating that skill out and giving it particular attention in the training of guitarists. Many very fine guitarists can play great chords and good lines but have never developed the skill of simultaneously doing both.

As for reading well, obviously, there are many different kinds of reading that all of us need to work on.

[drbhrb]

I didn't say "its hard" is an excuse. I said the peculiar difficulty merits separating that skill out and giving it particular attention in the training of guitarists. Many very fine guitarists can play great chords and good lines but have never developed the skill of simultaneously doing both.

As for reading well, obviously, there are many different kinds of reading that all of us need to work on.

This is an aside but since I/we mentioned reading:

The Fluent Guitarist


It's a new site that will email you site reading material every day. Works really well to force me to do it every day.

[lawson-stone]

This is an aside but since I/we mentioned reading:

The Fluent Guitarist


It's a new site that will email you site reading material every day. Works really well to force me to do it every day.

Thanks for that! Looks like a very helpful link.

[Nate Miller]

See this is at least part of the reason it rubs me the wrong way. "It's hard" is not really an excuse that other instrumentalists use. It's the same kind of mentality that makes it okay for guitarist to suck at reading (it's hard - there are 4 middle Cs! wah) or that it's okay for guitarist to just memorize chord shapes/fingerings and not think about the notes they are playing.


As for the greats doing solo guitar, that's all and well but I'd rather hear them in a group. Personal preference.

I can accept that you don't like playing solo or listening to solo playing or even drinking from red solo plastic cups

but Lawson's tune sketches are really nice. I like playing solo a lot, too. But I can understand it isn't for everybody and I'm not gong to assume that not liking solo playing means you can't do it. I won't go that far.

its just hard, though, as a guitar player, to have other guitar players running down something I've spent my life working on.

if you are getting some push back on your opinions on solo playing, this is probably why.

what's different about a thread like this is that its got a negative premise. Its against an aspect of guitar playing that is a part of the jazz guitar tradition. Its heartbreaking, really, for those of us who really enjoy it

but don't let me slow you down. go ahead and whack away on solo guitar like you're trying to get candy out of a pinata

[matt.guitarteacher]

I'll admit to being somewhat of a hypocritical snob about chord melody . I don't listen to a lot of others players solo. Love Keith Jarrett's trio music and understand that he's an excellent solo player , but I'm just not going to listen to as much of his solo music . Just preferred the trio so much more in there so much of it I haven't heard as well as other musicians. Life is short.

I get the preference for not listening to a lot of it. that being said, most of my enjoyment of solo guitar playing is for my own enjoyment as a player . Like Lawson, I'm mostly in a jazz wasteland. I'm never going to play single-line stuff with a backing track at my house until I get to the point where I'm working on stuff for gigs. I figure I'm three or four years away from that just with my kids and family schedule .

For me, PLAYING solo has always just been very compelling, way before I started playing jazz. Back in the day, I spent a lot of time working on other people's arrangements of things. Meanwhile, the idea of understanding the fretboard enough and having enough skill to arrange tunes on the fly, by ear or from a lead sheet, seemed like something that would just be impossible.

I'm very thankful for being exposed to jazz chord melody playing enough to realize a part of this goal, at least at a certain level. For me, solo playing is personal thing mostly, with personal, spiritual , musical benefits which are primarily for me alone. It also makes me an overall better player whether it's improved comping or things like having the option of adding a few minutes instrumental music onto a singing gig for a wedding.

It's now not much effort to arrange my own version of hymns or popular songs etc. from a lead sheet, and it's just so much more satisfying and, honestly, easier than working up other people's arrangements at this point.

[drbhrb]

I can accept that you don't like playing solo or listening to solo playing or even drinking from red solo plastic cups

but Lawson's tune sketches are really nice. I like playing solo a lot, too. But I can understand it isn't for everybody and I'm not gong to assume that not liking solo playing means you can't do it. I won't go that far.

its just hard, though, as a guitar player, to have other guitar players running down something I've spent my life working on.

if you are getting some push back on your opinions on solo playing, this is probably why.

what's different about a thread like this is that its got a negative premise. Its against an aspect of guitar playing that is a part of the jazz guitar tradition. Its heartbreaking, really, for those of us who really enjoy it

but don't let me slow you down. go ahead and whack away on solo guitar like you're trying to get candy out of a pinata

I'm happy for those that do enjoy it - I'm not on a crusade to stop people from pursuing what they like.

[Nate Miller]

I'm happy for those that do enjoy it - I'm not on a crusade to stop people from pursuing what they like.

thanks, bud, I do appreciate that

and you know, what you said about the interaction of a group...I really do understand where you are coming from there, and I can see your point

that's a very legitimate reason to not like playing solo

[bako]

In the "chord melody" playing of guitarists at every level, there are components of the total musical package that at times come up short, in my opinion.

Melody, accompaniment, bass line, counter melody, etc.

What we are aiming towards is the same clarity of articulation and balance as if it was played by multiple musicians.
Pianists have a significantly higher success rate than guitarists in this regard.

Yes this is quite hard to achieve given the mechanics of the guitar, but I agree that "hard" is an irrelevant commentary within a bandstand mentality.

All this said, I still enjoy listening to and learning from practitioners of "chord melody".
Funny how we invented a separate term to represent what a pianist would consider simply playing the song.

[ronjazz]

The "total musical package" is simply the expression of music. There is no definition of that non-existent fantasy. Bach didn't write solo violin and cello works that aren't the "total musical package". We are decidedly NOT aiming at the same thing as an ensemble achieves, whatsoever, and pianists all too often miss the mark by filling space with meaningless notes. We are playing music, what comes out is what we express. In chord melody playing of those such as Ted Greene and Ed Bickert there is nothing missing.

Hard? It certainly doesn't sound hard when done well.

[christianm77]

The "total musical package" is simply the expression of music. There is no definition of that non-existent fantasy. Bach didn't write solo violin and cello works that aren't the "total musical package". We are decidedly NOT aiming at the same thing as an ensemble achieves, whatsoever, and pianists all too often miss the mark by filling space with meaningless notes. We are playing music, what comes out is what we express. In chord melody playing of those such as Ted Greene and Ed Bickert there is nothing missing.

Hard? It certainly doesn't sound hard when done well.

Fantastic post. It's crazy how musicians - including me of course - can be afraid of space....

[pingu]

Pianist envy

Thats good !

[pingu]

ok, that I can understand...fair enough

there's people who like to play solo and there's people that don't

I can understand it !
I like both /all

apros of nothing , Mango was talking about Jim Mullen somewhere here
can't find the tread now so.................

listen to Jim Mullen's solo from 3.30 ...... O My Gauld ! on a simgle B minor groove too

play it baby !

[christianm77]

I can understand it !
I like both /all

apros of nothing , Mango was talking about Jim Mullen somewhere here
can't find the tread now so.................

listen to Jim Mullen's solo from 3.30 ...... O My Gauld ! on a simgle B minor groove too

play it baby !

Actually that was me :-)

[pingu]

yesh sorry christian

[pingu]

Fantastic post. It's crazy how musicians - including me of course - can be afraid of space....

(OK not jazz alert , sorry)
but
Right on, I just saw Paul Simon playing 'sound of silence' solo on Later with ....

Fabulous .....a big old space opened up , magnificent arrangement on solo guitar + voice

nothing missing there at all

bit like this

[snoskier63]

Then there are those who include solo guitar, chord melody, and single note lines all in one tune...

I can listen to that all day!

[lawson-stone]

Then there are those who include solo guitar, chord melody, and single note lines all in one tune...

I can listen to that all day!

AKA Joe Pass, who made this a standard requirement for anybody claiming to be a solid jazz guitar player.

[targuit]

This is funny, because one of the chord melody style arrangements I was working on and refining this morning happened to be Darn That Dream, along with The End of a Love Affair and This Is All I Ask.

One issue about creating arrangements (not note for note necessarily but adhering to the melody and with reasonably "correct" harmonies) is that some songs are more difficult to execute solo on one instrument than another. I think this is an excellent example of a song that is easier to play in the sense of clean execution on the keyboards than on solo guitar. Not only in terms of playing the melody but also the harmony. That is not to say it cannot be done well on guitar. Just that I think this tune is harder to play on guitar.

Another issue beyond time and rhythm though very related is the overall style. For example, one can adhere to the melody and traditional style harmony with a song or get more "creative" with the tune. When I create my arrangements in Sibelius, the original draft is generally an attempt to recreate the song relatively faithfully. Then I can modify or improvise in performance to whatever degree suits my mood or the situation. The style in turn affects voicings and rhythmic approaches.

I can certainly understand that some players seem to take an "athletic" approach that occasionally seems to supersede a lyrical or more conservative approach. But that is a matter of taste. I sometimes would get a bit bored with Joe's relentless tempos on occasion, longing for a more languid if less athletic tempo at times.