Howard Morgen arranging process

[Dave70]

Love this: Arranging For Five Guitars (by Dave70, perhaps?).

PS It says 'five guitars', but you can use this system on one guitar (by not doubling the melody in the bass - or by having another instrument play that part).

Nice, but I can't take credit for it. Different Dave.

[matt.guitarteacher]

Love this: Arranging For Five Guitars (by Dave70, perhaps?).

PS It says 'five guitars', but you can use this system on one guitar (by not doubling the melody in the bass - or by having another instrument play that part).

Yeah. This has some good basic principles for dealing with six in place of major seven etc. , but these are basically close voiced in aren't going to lay out on the guitar as well, much of the time. This page is actually pretty good visual for referencing stacked voicings and understanding what you're "dropping" in drop two, three etc.

I just think if you're talking about beginners and getting started with chord melody, close voicings would probably be pretty far down the list in terms of priorities. Mike, you're a better player than I, by far, and a more gracious one as well, so I'll defer to you if you have other thoughts. These are just what I see looking at it.

If I had to take a guess at priorities for a rank beginner, from my own experience and what I've seen from others, it would probably be something like:

1. Working on understanding and instantly "knowing" the chord tones represented on the higher strings which can be used for melody chords/voicings you already know, (majoring in those with root in the bass?) .

2. A set of starting reference go-to voicings for CM from great players or from a teacher. (Joe pass has been mentioned. Robert Conti addresses it pretty specifically and in a purposefully limited manner in the beginning.)

3. Shell voicings, (with or without bass) plus melody note added to the top, for workarounds of problem spots and for holes in knowledge at the beginning.

4. Chord subs, diatonic and otherwise.

5. Systematic inversions of chords using drop two, drop three ( and with replacement of roots with 9th, 3rds with 11ths etc. etc.) really working on purposeful and systematic fretboard knowledge at that point.

If you had to prioritize things for #5 above, I'd think: drop 2 , drop 3 , and then "others" ( including close voice) would be order priorities for chord melody.

.... anyway, that's completely me talking out of my arse. I would appreciate other's thoughts and criticisms. it's some point, there's a diminishing returns in being very systematic , as opposed to just working on subs of more outside harmony or whatever.

These are just my initial thoughts. Numbers 3 thru 5 I would kind of think are happening at same time, maybe. It's hard to tell someone else what they should do . This is just my gut feeling on it. Your thoughts?

[grahambop]

Here's a solo version of 'In The Wee Small Hours' I did a few years ago. I can't remember how I played that bit at the beginning where there's a descending harmony. I'll have to study the video and figure it out!

[lawson-stone]

Here's a solo version of 'In The Wee Small Hours' I did a few years ago. I can't remember how I played that bit at the beginning where there's a descending harmony. I'll have to study the video and figure it out!

thanks for that! Lovely presentation of a wonderful song.

[matt.guitarteacher]

Here's a solo version of 'In The Wee Small Hours' I did a few years ago. I can't remember how I played that bit at the beginning where there's a descending harmony. I'll have to study the video and figure it out!

Wow, Graham . Really nice, especially for that many choruses. Do you do solo numbers as part of your set ?

[lawson-stone]

Yeah. This has some good basic principles for dealing with six in place of major seven etc. , but these are basically close voiced in aren't going to lay out on the guitar as well, much of the time. This page is actually pretty good visual for referencing stacked voicings and understanding what you're "dropping" in drop two, three etc.

I just think if you're talking about beginners and getting started with chord melody, close voicings would probably be pretty far down the list in terms of priorities. Mike, you're a better player than I, by far, and a more gracious one as well, so I'll defer to you if you have other thoughts. These are just what I see looking at it.

If I had to take a guess at priorities for a rank beginner, from my own experience and what I've seen from others, it would probably be something like:

1. Working on understanding and instantly "knowing" the chord tones represented on the higher strings which can be used for melody chords/voicings you already know, (majoring in those with root in the bass?) .

2. A set of starting reference go-to voicings for CM from great players or from a teacher. (Joe pass has been mentioned. Robert Conti addresses it pretty specifically and in a purposefully limited manner in the beginning.)

3. Shell voicings, (with or without bass) plus melody note added to the top, for workarounds of problem spots and for holes in knowledge at the beginning.

4. Chord subs, diatonic and otherwise.

5. Systematic inversions of chords using drop two, drop three ( and with replacement of roots with 9th, 3rds with 11ths etc. etc.) really working on purposeful and systematic fretboard knowledge at that point.

If you had to prioritize things for #5 above, I'd think: drop 2 , drop 3 , and then "others" ( including close voice) would be order priorities for chord melody.

.... anyway, that's completely me talking out of my arse. I would appreciate other's thoughts and criticisms. it's some point, there's a diminishing returns in being very systematic , as opposed to just working on subs of more outside harmony or whatever.

These are just my initial thoughts. Numbers 3 thru 5 I would kind of think are happening at same time, maybe. It's hard to tell someone else what they should do . This is just my gut feeling on it. Your thoughts?

Matt
You summarize nicely the basic skills one needs under their belt to play in this style. In the development of guitar technique, the process of playing the harmonized diatonic scale has become pretty well established and I think we do well very quickly to master those fundamental voicings, summarized well by you above.

When I worked through the Mel Bay Guitar Melody-Chord System 'way back before color television, that was what I learned, was that notes of the scale should always be thought of as sitting on top of chords. At some point I stopped thinking of isolated notes, but of notes floating on a pond of harmonic ideas. The "non-stacked" chords are part, I think, of the guitar's charm. We can easily play these more open voicings that pianists have to stretch a bit to find.

An exercise I enjoy, and still do simply because it never gets old (for me) is to pick any note on the guitar and see how many different chords I can play with that note "on top." I give myself extra points if I can name the chord. Then I take a note and use it as a pedal tone to see how many different progressions I can play with that note on top. Some are chromatic, some ii-V-I, whatever. Another fun exercise is to make the chord stay the same and see how many notes I can find, or how many sequences of notes I can find, that I can play from that chord.

Somehow that exercise always helps me lock into a chord-melodic mentality.

[grahambop]

Wow, Graham . Really nice, especially for that many choruses. Do you do solo numbers as part of your set ?

Thanks Matt. I just play at home mainly, so in a way everything I do tends to be 'solo'. But I don't really do that many tunes in a proper 'solo arrangement' like this. I'm getting into it more though. In the past I've focussed much more on single-note playing, but now I'm really getting into the whole 'chords and harmony' side of things. Sort of a resolution for this year, if you like.

I think I 'got the bug' when there was that recent discussion about the Barry Harris approach, and I got Alan Kingstone's book. Since then I've got the Randy Vincent drop 2 book and the Barry Galbraith comping book, so it's chords all the way now!

[grahambop]

thanks for that! Lovely presentation of a wonderful song.

thankyou!

[targuit]

I always said I thought Graham was one of the best at his style on the Forum.

Now he will become a beast at chord melody as well.

[eduardosanz]

Amazing Graham!

[lawson-stone]

Graham's post of "Wee Small Hours" reminded me... what a harmonically interesting tune this is. And it's slow enough that you can milk the changes. The basic lead-sheet changes alone offer some very tasty ideas. I am thinking about posting a clip, nothing as developed as Graham's but just in the interest of keeping the conversation going in such a helpful direction.

[lawson-stone]

Thanks Matt. I just play at home mainly, so in a way everything I do tends to be 'solo'. But I don't really do that many tunes in a proper 'solo arrangement' like this. I'm getting into it more though. In the past I've focussed much more on single-note playing, but now I'm really getting into the whole 'chords and harmony' side of things. Sort of a resolution for this year, if you like.

I think I 'got the bug' when there was that recent discussion about the Barry Harris approach, and I got Alan Kingstone's book. Since then I've got the Randy Vincent drop 2 book and the Barry Galbraith comping book, so it's chords all the way now!

Graham,
As a mature, or advanced player who has decided to move this direction, what would you say are the most helpful things you've learned from these books? I hear a lot about Barry Harris but haven't really explored what his approach is. What were some of the best take-aways you got from these?

I also love the way your line playing comes through. I still tend to play chords or lines, and haven't been very good at integrating them. My line playing is also pretty much "white bread" and poorly developed, so I have trouble incorporating it into my solo guitar playing.

[grahambop]

I always said I thought Graham was one of the best at his style on the Forum.

Now he will become a beast at chord melody as well.

haha thanks Jay. I will see what I can do!

[destinytot]

Yeah. This has some good basic principles for dealing with six in place of major seven etc. , but these are basically close voiced in aren't going to lay out on the guitar as well, much of the time. This page is actually pretty good visual for referencing stacked voicings and understanding what you're "dropping" in drop two, three etc.

I just think if you're talking about beginners and getting started with chord melody, close voicings would probably be pretty far down the list in terms of priorities. Mike, you're a better player than I, by far, and a more gracious one as well, so I'll defer to you if you have other thoughts. These are just what I see looking at it.

If I had to take a guess at priorities for a rank beginner, from my own experience and what I've seen from others, it would probably be something like:

1. Working on understanding and instantly "knowing" the chord tones represented on the higher strings which can be used for melody chords/voicings you already know, (majoring in those with root in the bass?) .

2. A set of starting reference go-to voicings for CM from great players or from a teacher. (Joe pass has been mentioned. Robert Conti addresses it pretty specifically and in a purposefully limited manner in the beginning.)

3. Shell voicings, (with or without bass) plus melody note added to the top, for workarounds of problem spots and for holes in knowledge at the beginning.

4. Chord subs, diatonic and otherwise.

5. Systematic inversions of chords using drop two, drop three ( and with replacement of roots with 9th, 3rds with 11ths etc. etc.) really working on purposeful and systematic fretboard knowledge at that point.

If you had to prioritize things for #5 above, I'd think: drop 2 , drop 3 , and then "others" ( including close voice) would be order priorities for chord melody.

.... anyway, that's completely me talking out of my arse. I would appreciate other's thoughts and criticisms. it's some point, there's a diminishing returns in being very systematic , as opposed to just working on subs of more outside harmony or whatever.

These are just my initial thoughts. Numbers 3 thru 5 I would kind of think are happening at same time, maybe. It's hard to tell someone else what they should do . This is just my gut feeling on it. Your thoughts?

Wow, Matt! I see that as a huge topic and challenge, one where it's easy to over-water the plant and (unintentionally) do more harm than good. I'm mulling it over, and I'll post tonight.

[grahambop]

Amazing Graham!

thankyou!

[lawson-stone]

Inspired by Graham, I've posted in the "Songs" area my beginning/intermediate level treatment of "Wee Small Hours of the Morning."

[grahambop]

Graham,
As a mature, or advanced player who has decided to move this direction, what would you say are the most helpful things you've learned from these books? I hear a lot about Barry Harris but haven't really explored what his approach is. What were some of the best take-aways you got from these?

I also love the way your line playing comes through. I still tend to play chords or lines, and haven't been very good at integrating them. My line playing is also pretty much "white bread" and poorly developed, so I have trouble incorporating it into my solo guitar playing.

Ok those are good questions! The Barry Harris thing gives you a way of creating lots of movement going from one chord to another. Really it's a bit like creating a 'scale' out of chords, rather than single notes. The advantage is that all the chords are inversions of a maj6 (or min6) alternating with diminished chords. So that makes for a lot less chords to learn. Alan Kingstone's book covers this very thoroughly plus some extra stuff. The main takeaway for me is that it got me thinking about how to create more movement of the chords and inner harmonies than I would otherwise, and some tools to do it with.

I've only just gone through the Randy Vincent book. It covers a fair bit of the Barry Harris method, but it also has some useful additions, like adjusting that approach when it doesn't always fit. I haven't studied the Galbraith book yet but listening to the CD, there are some great comping examples applied to well known tunes.

I do find it quite hard to integrate single lines and chords when playing solo tunes. My method is to try and work out a sort of framework of the most important chords, try and really internalise it, and then hopefully that gives me some space to play single lines, but still hit a chord often enough to keep the sense of the chord progression going. So it's less improvised than when I play single note solos, I sort of have a plan to follow, maybe even some phrases worked out. To be honest I cannot just improvise that stuff like Joe Pass or somebody!

By the way if you want to see some of the results of what I got from the Barry Harris method, see this thread:

Barry Harris chord movements - My Romance

[matt.guitarteacher]

In the past I've focussed much more on single-note playing, but now I'm really getting into the whole 'chords and harmony' side of things. Sort of a resolution for this year, if you like.

I'm kind of the opposite, but probably not as far along as you in either category. :-) I spent a lot of time working CM, like a large part of 2-3 years. Now I'm really trying to get the single line stuff together more, but I'm mostly an at-home player as well.

I do find it quite hard to integrate single lines and chords when playing solo tunes. My method is to try and work out a sort of framework of the most important chords, try and really internalise it, and then hopefully that gives me some space to play single lines, but still hit a chord often enough to keep the sense of the chord progression going. So it's less improvised than when I play single note solos, I sort of have a plan to follow, maybe even some phrases worked out. To be honest I cannot just improvise that stuff like Joe Pass or somebody!

I kind of accidentally fell into this way of playing a year or two ago while working through some of Jimmy Amadie's enclosure stuff. At the same time I had been looking at Bert Ligon's similar material. Anyway, one of Ligon's big principles with learning new vocabulary is "on, before, after". In other words any line you're working, practice it beginning on the beat, before the beat, and after the beat. Since I had been playing so much with chords anyway, I just added the extra bit of making the chord the after or before bit rather than a single note. Once you start practicing simple lines beginning with a chord, then, same line but now, the chord's the target, it develops your ability to articulate chords at any time you hear them in your head...and far beyond the specific chords/lines you're practicing specifically. You can pretty quickly learn to translate the articulation concepts to anything you can play.

And there lies my real problem. There's just so much work left for the single-line stuff for me. I kind of got into the jazz part of it later, after kind of falling in love with chord melody playing. But the articulation of integrated chord/melodic playing is not really the hurdle. It's an independent skill which I think you could work up pretty easily, and with your solid line playing... I'm telling you, it's not the hurdle you might think. Mostly just a simple articulation exercise. You've already got everything else in place. Whatever lines you're working, just practice beginning or ending with a simple shell voicing reference or whatever. Once you learn the feel and hearing, you should be able to apply to anything you can actually play, chords or single lines.

I always thought that the integration part was "end game" stuff, but you can work on it at even at lower levels, like where I'm at. It's really just part of the "smoke and mirrors" thing.

[Dave70]

You guys might be interested in an article on Howard:

http://www.howardmorgen.com/docs/How...cle_8_2007.pdf

[55bar]

Just jumped up out of my pile of medical records under which I am temporarily ....err...buried (don't like to use those terms), but I was just wondering if anyone is familiar with a Kurt Rosenwinkel "clinic" (as Joe Pass used to say, "makes me feel like a doctor or something...") in which Kurt talks about how he approaches CM style playing using Body and Soul for illustration. I won't link it so as not to disrupt the flow here, but one can find it on YouTube by searching his name and Body and Soul. Unfortunately the video seems to cut off Kurt's head in the frame which is a bit annoying, but his playing is very nice and his explanations articulate.

If you want to hear that fellow Peter Mazza I mentioned before do his thing with All the things you are, one can search that on YT as well. I'm not crazy about it as a listener myself, but his approach is different in terms of harmony.

I intend to try and do some real spontaneous solo recording with my Tascam DR-05 of some of the tunes here, as I believe I can upload them more directly to my YT site. Got to finish a couple of more records in the pile before that - my wife is a tough taskmaster. She knows me too well...

I re posted that last week

Great vid.

[destinytot]

thankyou!

Really enjoyed that - particularly the 'pretty' lines and double-time feel in the middle section.

[destinytot]

I always said I thought Graham was one of the best at his style on the Forum.

Now he will become a beast at chord melody as well.

Lyrical, like Chet Baker - but advantaged by the guitar's capacity for chords/harmony!

[destinytot]

Yeah. This has some good basic principles for dealing with six in place of major seven etc. , but these are basically close voiced in aren't going to lay out on the guitar as well, much of the time. This page is actually pretty good visual for referencing stacked voicings and understanding what you're "dropping" in drop two, three etc.

I just think if you're talking about beginners and getting started with chord melody, close voicings would probably be pretty far down the list in terms of priorities. Mike, you're a better player than I, by far, and a more gracious one as well, so I'll defer to you if you have other thoughts. These are just what I see looking at it.

If I had to take a guess at priorities for a rank beginner, from my own experience and what I've seen from others, it would probably be something like:

1. Working on understanding and instantly "knowing" the chord tones represented on the higher strings which can be used for melody chords/voicings you already know, (majoring in those with root in the bass?) .

2. A set of starting reference go-to voicings for CM from great players or from a teacher. (Joe pass has been mentioned. Robert Conti addresses it pretty specifically and in a purposefully limited manner in the beginning.)

3. Shell voicings, (with or without bass) plus melody note added to the top, for workarounds of problem spots and for holes in knowledge at the beginning.

4. Chord subs, diatonic and otherwise.

5. Systematic inversions of chords using drop two, drop three ( and with replacement of roots with 9th, 3rds with 11ths etc. etc.) really working on purposeful and systematic fretboard knowledge at that point.

If you had to prioritize things for #5 above, I'd think: drop 2 , drop 3 , and then "others" ( including close voice) would be order priorities for chord melody.

.... anyway, that's completely me talking out of my arse. I would appreciate other's thoughts and criticisms. it's some point, there's a diminishing returns in being very systematic , as opposed to just working on subs of more outside harmony or whatever.

These are just my initial thoughts. Numbers 3 thru 5 I would kind of think are happening at same time, maybe. It's hard to tell someone else what they should do . This is just my gut feeling on it. Your thoughts?

Following up on my short reply yesterday.

I've pondered the list, and these five areas seem great to me - very systematic.

It already seems to be implied (if not 'embedded') in the above list - which seems to cover a lot of physical considerations - but, for me, the music/tunes/songs need to be what drives those considerations.

I think it's fair to say that ('pre-fab') voicings/fingerings/shapes are (obviously) useful tools - at any level of competence - but it's harmful to let those devices become a substitute for understanding how music works.

I'll add that ear training is far more important to me than practising guitar - except when I'm preparing a 'performance' of some kind.

Re. that last point I think Howard Morgen had a real gift for teaching music on guitar - in a way that empowers even 'rank beginners' to access beautiful sounds.

[targuit]

One has to add that Matt's work and results are manifest in the music he has put up here. I am impressed.

I have to admit, perhaps with my ADHD I have never approached things in as analytical and systematic way. I assume it is probably too late and improbable for me to change. But sometimes dedication and persistence pay off. I am going to take a chance and risk being seen as a fool.

I am an emotional player at heart. I get moved by the music. When I hear Matt, Lawson, or Mike and others play certain songs, emotions well up in my heart and resonate in my being. This has been a very thoughtful week or so, and one suffused with emotions of joy and great sadness for some on the forum whose Mothers have passed away. The joy has been to participate in the creation - ok, not THE CREATION - but that of hearing the great talent, dedication, and determination of you all expressed in your music. The sadness the reminder of mortality and loss of those whose voices and comfort we will never again hear and experience on this earth. I feel that I have participated vicariously in the joy as well as the sadness. But the one thing that binds these emotions together is love. Love and passion for music as well as love for our parents and our children, a force that, like the subatomic forces holding the atom together, binds us to our fellows. Sometimes we forget that, and we fall into strife and divisions that drive us apart. But I believe that music is healing and gives us a gateway to a healing place for us individually and collectively.

I don't know if there is a Heaven, or whether if there is, they admit the fallen like me. I don't know if I will ever be reunited with my Father in an afterlife, an amazing and brave man who conquered adversity and obstacles I can only imagine being strong enough to endure, whom I have thought of and missed nearly every day since one sad day in July many years ago when I was young and my future lay before me like an open road. After the shock and numbness of loss, music was my solace along with the love of my Mother and sisters. Music has always been a healing force like time and memories and a gateway to experience even if only transiently a greater power. And I suppose that is why it is a constant in my life as it is in those of us here, seekers of a greater truth and beauty to soothe our individual pain.

I apologize for my arrogance, my moments of obstinacy and obtuseness. I hope you will forgive this post - out of place and irrelevant - but the power of music and its seduction and beauty seem so evident, and with the coincidence of the deep losses in the lives of some on this forum this week, I have more than once been literally moved to tears by the emotions unleashed. I am not ashamed to admit that. I would not do so to strangers, yet I feel you all are more than acquaintances, but in some deeper sense friends who can come together to aid each other work through adversity and pain each in our way. I deeply appreciate that, and like any man facing his mortality, I ask for forgiveness.

Maybe it is all just a dress rehearsal.

[grahambop]

But the articulation of integrated chord/melodic playing is not really the hurdle. It's an independent skill which I think you could work up pretty easily, and with your solid line playing... I'm telling you, it's not the hurdle you might think. Mostly just a simple articulation exercise. You've already got everything else in place. Whatever lines you're working, just practice beginning or ending with a simple shell voicing reference or whatever. Once you learn the feel and hearing, you should be able to apply to anything you can actually play, chords or single lines.

I always thought that the integration part was "end game" stuff, but you can work on it at even at lower levels, like where I'm at. It's really just part of the "smoke and mirrors" thing.

Yes I think you're right, I just need to practise more stuff like this (it's not something I've been doing much). I tend to play lines that I visualise as being related to or built around chord forms anyway (I think Joe Pass said the same), so it should not be too difficult to join the 2 things up a bit.