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Apologies for the goofy subject line. I'm trying to collect tunes to add to my repertoire that are sort of the inverse of standard chord-melody arrangements. They are plectrum-centric and rely more on individually picked notes (arpeggios with or without tied harmony notes and lines) rather than standard chord melody arrangements that typically put the melody line on top of a stack of notes (don't get me wrong—I love chord-melody arrangements). There are a ton of etudes written like this but I'm searching for performable tunes, original or standards.
Those more knowledgeable than me here probably have a name for these kinds of arrangements but I'm at a loss—my google-fu is not powerful enough...
Can you help me build a list of tunes or example arrangements of these creatures? Thanks!
So here are a couple of examples from Pat Martino's catalog:
Country Road (Creative Force DVD)
Both Sides Now
OR
Tradia (which I posted on the Technique forum)
OR
Passata on Guitar
For better or worse, my list is a tad Pat Martino-centric!
Last edited by FatPick; 12-18-2015 at 08:22 PM.
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12-18-2015 02:29 PM
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I suppose Bach would be the well from which such things sprang/spring. I like the unfolding of the harmony, one note at a time. I can't help you with modern things like the ones you mention, but Bach wrote a ton of them.
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That's a great idea! I could see inserting some Bach into the middle of a solo jazz tune just to shift gears. Sort of like a Z section in the arrangement...A A B Z A...
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I agree. I'm interested in this approach myself, I want to avoid the fingerstyle solo guitar thing (which I have done to some extent in the past). It also seems a bit silly to have a solo style that is totally different from your ensemble approach. You should be able to play as yourself in whatever way the set up demands.
Anyway, here's my attempt at doing this on Darn That Dream.... Still quite block chordal in places, but reaching out a little into counterpoint and voice movement. Trying to keep it intuitive and improvised...
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As with all things chord-melody (or melody-chord :-) there is this well known italian-american guy:
His blues themes are quite single-notey too. Check out the "Intro-Blues" to his Jazz Lines video for an example.
Since Bach was already mentioned, I couldn't resist to post this classic, although I wouldn't call it "performable";-)
It is a bit chordy in the beginning, but listen through the whole tune. You'll be quite surprised (at least if you haven't already seen it)
Another thing that comes to my mind are the themes that are written in that kind of "question and answer"-style like "So What", "Don't get around much anymore", "In a mellow tone" and of course "Autumn Leaves". All the tunes where you can play just the melody and then some block-chords (or may be bass-lines) in between the phrases.
And there was a thread about playing bebop "chord-melody" that is worth checking out:
Chord Melody for Bebop Tunes (Donna Lee)
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Gotta get Mel Bay's "Plectrum Guitar" book.
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I think you could mean contrapuntal improv ?
Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
Jimmy Wyble was also a well known player in that regard. One of his students has made a nice website with many of Jimmy's exercises and etudes.
keep in mind, he started out playing plectrum based 'Western swing'.
When he wanted to venture out in this direction, my teacher was the one who convinced him that he had to ditch that plectrum thing and study classical guitar formally. Because the term 'finger style guitar' does a grave disservice to the proper right hand technique that ONLY classical guitar provides.
i guess this discussion went on for a while, and Jimmy finally agreed that he needed to take the plunge. At that point, my teacher flew out to LA and had him meet someone from Ramirez and got him a proper classical guitar.
I believe jimmy wound up studying in LA with the Brazilian American, Laurido Almeida.
nothimg develops the right hand like the classical guitar.
I just signed up to study classical guitar at my local junior college next semester. The guy who teaches it actually brought both gene bertocinni and Roddy Elias to give master classes and clinics to our local po-dunk junior college. Which was very cool.
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I wasn't aware of this thread. Excellent! Good thing he starts off with an easy tune!And there was a thread about playing bebop "chord-melody" that is worth checking out:
Chord Melody for Bebop Tunes (Donna Lee)
Oh yeah, this is the kind of thing I'm looking for! Thanks!Gotta get Mel Bay's "Plectrum Guitar" book.
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If the OP's question was posted to a jazz piano forum the response might be:
"Chord-Melody -- What's that? Just play the melody and comp whatever you can with the remaining fingers."
My cheeky reply is influenced by Tim Lerch, who discourages even using the term "Chord-Melody" since the term can lead one down a path that puts the cart (harmony) before the horse (melody). (Although maybe he'll see this and say I've misstated the reason!)
Tim would be a great resource for the direction you want to go.
http://www.timlerch.com/lessons.htmlLast edited by KirkP; 12-18-2015 at 04:57 PM.
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I was going to post a video John Scofield playing My Ideal on acoustic... because it's my ideal how to play solo guitar arrangements and I think fits what we're talking about here. But alas, it's nowhere to be found anymore!
Here's he doing Georgia On My Mind, I like it slightly less, but still it's better than most other stuff. I generally hate solo guitar playing, but Scofiled is one of a few I can listen and enjoy.
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The strongest ridicule I've heard was by one of Jimmy Wyble's students, Sid Jacobs, who mocked the term strongly using a "nerd like " voice when pronouncing the term "chord melody', and he accompanied the nerd voice with hand signals that emulated quotation marks . Originally Posted by KIRKP
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I think we're looking at single-note lines which might imply counterpoint, rather than two-line counterpoint per se.
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I guess the problem with the "Chord Melody" term isn't so much that it puts harmony ahead of melody. The problem is that it leads guitarists that are learning to play solo guitar to think they must first grip the chord then find a way to fit melody around that. That approach can end up sounding like a bad pianist. Originally Posted by NSJ
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What about this for a term - playing jazz on your own.
Last edited by christianm77; 12-18-2015 at 06:03 PM.
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I dunno about this mate, that's what me dad used to say- if you play jazz, you're on your own! Originally Posted by christianm77
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Old Mel Bay, the original, published a method for chord melody on the tenor banjo, and called it the Melody-Chord System. Melody came first.
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this guys pretty good
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I´ve made a video where theme + impro, are played with pick. Its the closest I´ve been to melody chord in an soloimpro. Originally Posted by KIRKP
Its very hard not to think the chord first, but its a great challenge, and I think the idea can free us up in fast tempos.
Hope its ok I share, in this thread with such fine company of legends.
(Note: The fact that Im a upside down player gives me a benefit in playing lead with the pick)
Last edited by Uffe Steen; 12-28-2015 at 08:16 AM.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
That's a great book.
Get Bucky Pizzarelli's "April Kisses" and Howard Alden's "No Amps Allowed" while you're at it.
I love that style of playing. Eddie Lang be damned! Hell, get the Eddie Lang box set while ya at it!
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Uffe, wow, that was wonderful! Sorry about your upside-down guitar.
(Your other videos are really great too.)
Irez, I'll definitely check out those resources too. Thanks!
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If I understand you correctly, Gilad does that in some of his solo work.
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Indeed! His book on Melody-Chord playing for guitar was a super early influence on me, maybe when I was 14 or 15 and just taking guitar playing seriously. I kept wondering "SO what are all those frets above the 5th fret for?" His book was my first answer! Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
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What I wonder is why guitarists keep comparing themselves to other players? We try to play lines like horn players, think of harmonies like piano players, and then get hung up that a piano player might respond to one of our technical problems with a "so what?" Look, when you have 88 keys and 10 fingers, and when you don't have to worry about buzzing frets, high action, etc. all I can say is "Lord help you if you can't make THAT work!" Chord-melody or Melody-chord concepts address a very specific technical problem on the guitar.
We can play lines, but unlike our horn-playing friends, we have multiple note positions and numerous "You can't get there from here" problems. We can just drum our fingers and get a line out of it. I'm not trying to minimize horn playing at all, but just noting that multiple note positions is a problem most horn players have no idea about. Nor pianists, for that matter.
Like pianists, we can play chords, but unlike pianists, we have to create full sounding harmonies with very few notes. The pianist can put 5 fingers to work on a melody and have 5 fingers left to play counterpoint, harmony, or turn the page on the music book. We can't. We have to play a melody, get a believable harmony underneath, some moving voices, and keep up a rhythmic pulse, all of that normally with only 4 notes at a time, and not all of them playable in any position.
So frankly, the techniques for making that happen on the guitar are, IMO, well worthy of a term and a whole technical literature, which we have, called "chord-melody" or "melody-chord."
Ask your favorite pianist to construct a complete harmonized melody that can stand on its own using only 4 fingers of one hand. Welcome to the world of the guitarist.
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for me , limits are good for creativity ....
you end up getting something different
from what you wanted ... which is great
God help me from getting what i want !
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that's the big misnomer, they do. When I studied with Jeb Patton I realized that all great musicians use very little to say quite a lot. The more and more I study music, the more aware I become of the importance of the ears and not the fingers. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
You want to play fast? Hear fast.
You want to play counter point? Sing counter point.
You want to play more interesting harmonies? Learn how to listen to basic harmonies.
I have all volumes of George Van Eps and countless other harmony books. They would all mean jack squat if I didn't temper those studies with in depth ear training and sight singing. Fact is, you got to get those sounds in your ears before you play em with your fingers.
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