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Hi guys,
I've started the Assembly Line and it looks like an awesome approach. My problem is that I am an academic and love to (have to) over-analyze things. I started taking each of his chords and picked them apart, looking at the intervals etc. This is something that he says not to do. The question is - is there really a danger in doing this? In other words, will it actually impede my progress?
What are your thought?
Thanks
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10-15-2014 10:08 AM
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Conti thinks that once you get something under your fingers, it is easier to understand why it works.
That said, I don't think it will hurt you to analyze the stuff, but time spent analyzing is time not spent playing the chords....
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Do you want to play or do you want to sit around thinking about playing? Get the material under your hands. Learn to play some tunes. Think about it later.
Ted Greene once famously said, "No one will call you because you know HOW the music works. They'll call you because you can PLAY the music.
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I agree with Monk and Mr. Rhodes.
That said, nothing in Assembly Line is difficult theory: tritone subs, uses of diminished chords and augmented/whole tone.
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Ha! Great line. That might be a good choice for my ever-changing signature quote...
Originally Posted by monk
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I don't think there's any "danger". Just don't get hung up on it or anything. I'm the same way and kind of wondered what motivated his chord choices etc. For me, the main thing was that it was just really helpful to start out with a limited number of voicings at the beginning.
It's a lot more than just the voicings. The sequential exercises and methodology are just beautiful simplicity.Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 10-15-2014 at 01:34 PM.
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Mark,
Before you use that quote, it's been many years since I heard it and what I wrote is a paraphrase. If memory serves, I believe I heard it in the attached video, which is worth watching simply because it's Ted teaching chords.
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Thanks, Monk! Great video---I hadn't seen this. Originally Posted by monk
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I think the line is from about 14:30 minutes in, when Ted is talking about flat-five substitutes:
"They won't hire you for knowing how it works. They hire you for knowing where to put it."
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Thanks for the advice guys. I think that what Monk said about sitting around and thinking about playing vs actually playing really hit home. I've spent way too much time thinking and not nearly enough with hands on strings.
Gotta change that.
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Conti tells the story of meeting Wes at a club in Philly and talking to him on a break .Wes was a big-time pro and Conti was a local kid who came to hear a guitar hero. Wes told him two things: 1) play as much as you can. 2) Learn good tunes. Originally Posted by djelley
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Joe Pass also used the term "learn tunes". He also kept his thinking about chords minimalistic, but then like Wes he had a fantastic "ear" and could play what he heard. Neither where great sight readers.
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They weren't but I need all the help I can get! Originally Posted by jazzuki
Joe Pass also used the term "learn tunes". He also kept his thinking about chords minimalistic, but then like Wes he had a fantastic "ear" and could play what he heard. Neither where great sight readers.
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I am, too, guilty of spending more time analyzing theory than playing tunes. Gota change that in the year to come.
That said, I am pretty interested in the R. Conti method to chord melody. I ve read that in Assembly Line's approach he teaches one chord for every posible melody note but how he does it? Does he teaches one chord for every note on strings one and two (assuming he puts most melodies on those treble strings) to make a total of 24 chords or what?
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Basically. Maybe that many for a dominant chord. More like basic diatonic for other chord types. Mostly 1st and 2nd string like you said. Originally Posted by eduardosanz
It's a great intro to chord melody IMO. So stinkin' simple you wonder why you didn't figure it out yourself. But sequenced very simply for quick progress. Probably best single method book purchase I ever made. Never really look at it anymore. Once you got it, it's just basic.
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I am heavily into Conti's books and arrangements at this time. Wish they were available years ago. Currently, I am just learning the tunes and going through the Assembly Line. For me, as I learn the tunes or work through the exercises, the theory reveals itself. After many epiphanies, I say play the exercises and learn the tunes. The theory will take care of itself.
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All the above answers to the OP have renewed my faith in this forum! It couldn't have been put any simpler: PLAY THE DAMN THING, DON"T SIT AROUND THINKING ABOUT IT. I've found in my (almost) 70 years on this speck of insignificant whirling dust, that when the academics get their paws into something, it's lost forever - just look at our educational system, government, economic policies, and, yes, JAZZ. I figured out a long time ago that you can play ANY note against any CHORD at any TIME and find (or invent) a rule to justify it - whether it's worth listening to or not is another story but that doesn't seem to bother some folks as long as they think they're on the edge of something or pushing the envelope.
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Conti's Signature arrangement books are an outstanding collection of great tunes and great learning. After learning just a few of his tunes, lights came on in my brain and it is making other tunes easier to learn and lots of tunes easier to arrange. The Signature arrangements are at least as valuable and useful as the Assembly Line book.
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it seems to me that either one is learning harmony and arranging on the guitar (instant or otherwise) or they are not.
are we espousing that one should slavishly play chords that one teacher wrote down without understanding what one is doing? really?
if yes, then what do you do when you don't have the "master's" books around?
in other words, how does this approach make the player any different than a classical student who plays well, has a good ear, but has no clue as to what they are playing and how it is architected? how well do you think that player would do in an intermediate to advanced improvisation or composition class?
also, playing one chord for every melody note (crunch, crunch, crunch, crunch) sounds awful. is that what a solo pianist does? how does one justify this from an arranging perspective with any ensemble that one can think of?
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Hi Fumble,
Good points, but that's a misunderstanding of Conti's method.
His two chord melody books - Assembly Line and The Formula -- give you the keys to the car and a rough roadmap and then off you go to see what you can find. Conti certainly DOES touch on the theory underlying why X sounds good with Y, but then he says don't worry about theory just play X with Y and you'll hear it - and more importantly it will be internalized.
And it's not one chord for every note. It's pick any song: a melody and underlying harmony. Here's a set of chords from each family (maj, min, dom, half-dim, dim, aug) that allows you to unite the two (melody and harmony) in chord melody form with lots of choices of color, density, embellishment and resolution.
The second book then says pick any song: a melody and harmony. Here are dfferent ways you can maintain the basic melody while reharmonizing the song for endless choruses. There's more theory in the second book, but it's not difficult and again, Conti says play it and you'll hear it and internalize it. What's the point of knowing why backcycling works if you cannot execute it cleanly on the fly?
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... the side benefits from Conti's method address weaknesses common to guitarists.
1. Does not use Tab. You just have to learn to read.
2. Builds chord vocabulary/comping both in fingers and in ears - by playing, playing, playing.
3 Builds repetoire - and this is key. His books are relatively short because once you have the basic techniques, the only way to practice is by employing them in songs. Say goodbye to endless drills and etudes!
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It's a good jumping off point.
The "play only what you understand" argument is silly. I Mickey Baker'd my jazz for a good while back in the day until I actually knew some things. Like countless others, none of that rote playing hindered my understanding of theoretical concepts later.
I don't think there are many people here who can honestly say that they just started with notes on the fretboard and created all their own scales, chord voicings, and ways to do everything from chord melody to arranging on their own. Are we honestly gonna say that's a better way for beginners? It's very akin to saying the transcribing is a worthless waste of time.
I'm sorry, but Conti's book is no worse than anyone else's chord melody book that I've seen. I think it's much better. Maybe lighter on theory, but it's also much more practical than most of what's out there.
When you've had enough of this book, move on to something with a little more meat.Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 12-24-2014 at 01:53 PM.
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By the way, re. playing "just what conti plays", I started with this book three years ago . I hardly ever look at it now, and I'm still an amateur hack, but I honestly don't think I play anything like Robert Conti.
Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 12-24-2014 at 01:55 PM.
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interesting discussion.
i would clarify my earlier comment to say that striking a chord under each melody note depends on the situation (harmonic rhythm and melodic rhythm).
some guys really overdo it and crowd out the melody (look ma! i know lots of chords!).
it sounds OK in small dosages but generally speaking the melody needs to breathe.
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I can't speak for Assembly Line, but The Formula is more of a reharm concept book than a play by rote thing....in fact I believe he says something to the effect of "who cares if you can play all the examples in the book, it's about understanding the concepts that are presented."
He does harmonize almost every single note...but it is primarily used to open your ears up to different devices he presents.
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