A Hollow Body Guitar from Scrap Wood in Two Weeks ?

[Dennis D]

Did anyone else see this ? Now there's 2 weeks of that guy's life he doesn't get back. I hope he and all the other luthiers got paid but I bet they didn't.

Scrap oak as a tonewood ? The guy obviously has skills, so why spend all that time making a Harmony / Sears Catalogue special ?

Scratching my head . . . : )

???

[BBGuitar]

I would play it. And be proud of it.

[John A.]

Did anyone else see this ? Now there's 2 weeks of that guy's life he doesn't get back. I hope he and all the other luthiers got paid but I bet they didn't.

Scrap oak as a tonewood ? The guy obviously has skills, so why spend all that time making a Harmony / Sears Catalogue special ?

Scratching my head . . . : )

???

In the video he says the rules of the build-off required recycled material. He used wood that he had on hand. It strikes me as worth a shot. Best case, it sounds and plays well. Worst case, we learn that these types of wood don't work well for guitars.

[Dennis D]

In the video he says the rules of the build-off required recycled material. He used wood that he had on hand. It strikes as worth a shot. Best case, it sounds and plays well. Worst case, we learn that these types of wood don't work well for guitars.

I guess I got more hung up on the time frame they were given. But I have to believe a luthier that good already knew what oak would sound like.

I just felt sorry for him the more I thought about it.

[AllanAllen]

Why would you feel sorry? He elected to do a build off challenge. Have you ever heard the phrase the journey is the destination?

[John A.]

I guess I got more hung up on the time frame they were given. But I have to believe a luthier that good already knew what oak would sound like.

I just felt sorry for him the more I thought about it.

The guy in the video explicitly says he's not a luthier, knows little about guitars, and doesn't even play. He was just in it for the woodworking challenge. As to how it sounds, I think it's impossible to tell from the brief demo (by a friend of his who couldn't really play either). But I bet the guy is pretty happy with how it came out.

[Ol' Fret]

Spruce and maple are the traditional materials when we think of finer archtop guitars.
Yet many types of wood can be used to make such guitars, if the builder knows how to work around the quirks of the chosen or available wood.

Some oak wood guitars have stood the test of time:



This is an ESTE archtop, or something like an ESTE replication made in GDR - some employees came from East Germany.
Felix Stärke (ESTE) in Hamburg was a successful builder of mainly banjos (about 1,000 exemplars) in the 1920s who made fine, now very sought-after archtop guitars in the 1930s and again a couple of instruments right after the war (in total less than 400). It is said that Stärke had been a fastidious man and never let a less than satisfying guitar leave his workshop.

Sure ESTE made spruce and maple archtop guitars:

[Dennis D]

I had to watch the beginning again, and yeah he said he'd previously only made one, and that was from a kit.

So if he's happy with what he built and what he had to endure to build it, good for him.

[Little Jay]

Did anyone else see this ? Now there's 2 weeks of that guy's life he doesn't get back. I hope he and all the other luthiers got paid but I bet they didn't.

Scrap oak as a tonewood ? The guy obviously has skills, so why spend all that time making a Harmony / Sears Catalogue special ?

Scratching my head . . . : )

???

I love the Harmony/Sears vibe! Guitar looks frick’n awesome!

Too bad they make it sound so utterly terrible but I bet they are better sounds in there than what buddy John - who obviously never played a note of jazz in his entire life - gets out of it.

[lawson-stone]

I am totally, hugely impressed. I just wish a jazz player had been found for the inaugural playing of the newborn guitar!

[joelf]

Did anyone else see this ? Now there's 2 weeks of that guy's life he doesn't get back. I hope he and all the other luthiers got paid but I bet they didn't.

Scrap oak as a tonewood ? The guy obviously has skills, so why spend all that time making a Harmony / Sears Catalogue special ?

Scratching my head . . . : )

???

Do you know about Rick Kelly? An amazing man who finds discarded wood at NYC construction sites and makes guitars and basses from it. (He also is incredibly kind-hearted and honest, and saved my ass numerous times with low-cost/no-cost repairs)...

[mr. beaumont]

I'd play the shit out of that. Cool video.

[joelf]

I'd play the shit out of that. Cool video.

I've known Rick ever since I was 'the nudnik of Greenwich Village' (a nameless club owner's none-too-affectionate appellation). He's a great guy who I could turn to with any guitar problems.

To wit: I once bought a Martin at Matt Umanov's store. Matt is, let's just say not on my xmas list. Due to my own negligence the guitar developed 2 huge cracks and a humongous hole near the bottom. I wanted to cry. Umanov got wind of this, and after a phony pep talk ('It's just a guitar. Not an arm or a leg---etc., etc.) with a straight face continued with 'We teach guitar repair here. I'll give you $50 for yours.' (the guitar cost me around $1,400).

I used my head though: went straight to Rick, who completely repaired the guitar, charging me a mere $60. The damage was still visible, but contained, and the instrument was playable. I was able to sell it to a friend and recoup around half the purchase price.

Another time the jack female became loose on my guitar and fell inside, and I had a gig. Rick fixed it 123, and charged me $5.

If I get to where I can afford one I'd buy a Kellycaster. (Cindy, his apprentice, also makes very interesting and well-made instruments). I have 2 archtops and that's more than enough...

[joelf]

Now I'm not sure which video you meant---probably the 1st.

But if I turned a few people onto the good deeds and work of Rick Kelly I'm happy...

[Jimmy blue note]

Oak is an extremely dense wood. I've never made an archtop with it but I know Al Carruth, who is a huge advocate of non rainforest woods and a fine luthier found it to be quite similar in density, cross grain stiffness and Q to rosewood, built a classical guitar with it. It turned out that as a flat top wood, it compared quite nicely with rosewood, was less oily, was much cheaper and easier to work with. It has great projection, it can be easily and reliably taken down to thicknesses that allow it to be tuned precisely and it's quite stable through temp and humidity changes. And it sounds great.

Other woods that are very fine top grade luthier tonewoods: Walnut, Apple, Sycamore, Cherry (if it's clear and on the quarter) and many more that can be found in temperate climates. The biggest obstacle to using wood that is more plentiful and of higher quality than "prestige" woods from depleted global sources? Prejudices of traditions and the insistence of consumers that only a handful of woods will make an excellent instrument.

Once again, looks prove to be more important than sound.

[joelf]

Oak is an extremely dense wood. I've never made an archtop with it but I know Al Carruth, who is a huge advocate of non rainforest woods and a fine luthier found it to be quite similar in density, cross grain stiffness and Q to rosewood, built a classical guitar with it. It turned out that as a flat top wood, it compared quite nicely with rosewood, was less oily, was much cheaper and easier to work with. It has great projection, it can be easily and reliably taken down to thicknesses that allow it to be tuned precisely and it's quite stable through temp and humidity changes. And it sounds great.

Other woods that are very fine top grade luthier tonewoods: Walnut, Apple, Sycamore, Cherry (if it's clear and on the quarter) and many more that can be found in temperate climates. The biggest obstacle to using wood that is more plentiful and of higher quality than "prestige" woods from depleted global sources? Prejudices of traditions and the insistence of consumers that only a handful of woods will make an excellent instrument.

Once again, looks prove to be more important than sound.

What about pine?

The luthier working on a vintage S.S. Stewart of mine says that's what it's made from, and that pine is a great guitar wood. Never had heard that before.

What do you think?

[Jimmy blue note]

What about pine?

The luthier working on a vintage S.S. Stewart of mine says that's what it's made from, and that pine is a great guitar wood. Never had heard that before.

What do you think?

Also a top wood with great properties. We tend to think of it as undesirable because the stuff we see is fast growth farmed and knotty (which I've seen incredible tele bodies made from), but as a top wood, when you can find close grain or even just clear straight and quartered pine, it's great. Strong, light, resonant and pretty golden light colouring. It tends to be softer than spruce, which is also an issue with redwood cedars, so it can take on "signs of endearment" quite easily, but yeah, you can make some really fine instruments with great tuned plates with pine IMHO.

I'm not so sure of how high or quickly pine grows in comparison with spruce, but I do know the fact that high elevations and slow growth contribute to the tight annular rings in spruce, especially species like Engleman which is very similar to European, tends to be smaller and harder to harvest from higher altitudes. So it's really a special wood.
I do wish more people worked with pine. We'd have a more comprehensive database. When something acquires a stigma of not being sought after, wood suppliers don't carry it, people don't experiment and great potential resources are ignored or overlooked. Shame.

[joelf]

Also a top wood with great properties. We tend to think of it as undesirable because the stuff we see is fast growth farmed and knotty (which I've seen incredible tele bodies made from), but as a top wood, when you can find close grain or even just clear straight and quartered pine, it's great. Strong, light, resonant and pretty golden light colouring. It tends to be softer than spruce, which is also an issue with redwood cedars, so it can take on "signs of endearment" quite easily, but yeah, you can make some really fine instruments with great tuned plates with pine IMHO.

I'm not so sure of how high or quickly pine grows in comparison with spruce, but I do know the fact that high elevations and slow growth contribute to the tight annular rings in spruce, especially species like Engleman which is very similar to European, tends to be smaller and harder to harvest from higher altitudes. So it's really a special wood.
I do wish more people worked with pine. We'd have a more comprehensive database. When something acquires a stigma of not being sought after, wood suppliers don't carry it, people don't experiment and great potential resources are ignored or overlooked. Shame.

Great to know, and looking forward to playing it---especially since it was made in the '50s. Talk about 'aged'!
So you're a luthier?

[JSanta]

It's not the same thing (at all and I recognize that) but Jerome Duffell is building me a guitar where the back and sides are smoked oak laminates. The wood is gorgeous, and I love the idea that something more sustainable can be used to wonderful effect. Other than the top, all of woods were sustainably sourced from either reclaimed wood or very old stock from the 1930s, and the smoked oak.

And FWIW, the best snare drum I've ever heard in person was made from oak.

[Jimmy blue note]

Great to know, and looking forward to playing it---especially since it was made in the '50s. Talk about 'aged'!
So you're a luthier?

If I made any money at it, I'd be able to say I'm a luthier. But yes I can build guitars and building and playing them is a life long pursuit.

[Christian Miller]

Interesting info jbn. Now I’m hankering for
an archtop made of native English wood….

[joelf]

If I made any money at it, I'd be able to say I'm a luthier. But yes I can build guitars and building and playing them is a life long pursuit.

I used to be tight with Eddie Diehl. He was a master at both.

One day for some reason I got the idea that maybe I could do repair work (it didn't last.)

Eddie: 'Forget it. You're too nervous'.

I dunno if he thought I'd shake and/or miss---like a mohel after too much Schnapps---but I dropped it...

[Jimmy blue note]

Interesting info jbn. Now I’m hankering for
an archtop made of native English wood….

Keep an eye out for fruit woods from trees old enough to have had a long life. Here in the states, there have been fruit trees that have grown since the early settlers leveled the land and cut down all the old growth trees. Now when there are more and more frequent extreme weather storms (which many deny the existence of), old apple and other fruit trees are coming down a lot.
If that's the case there, there may be sawyers and luthiers who converge at such fellings. It'd be a really nice tribute to the land and flora of your native lands to turn those years of growth and weathering into music. Do it!
Find out if any luthiers there will work with English wood.

[RJVB]

I think there are also videos where someone builds a semi-hollow out of lollipop or icecream sticks - and the results sounds like, well, an e-guitar?

Oak is an extremely dense wood. I've never made an archtop with it but I know Al Carruth, who is a huge advocate of non rainforest woods and a fine luthier found it to be quite similar in density, cross grain stiffness and Q to rosewood, built a classical guitar with it. It turned out that as a flat top wood, it compared quite nicely with rosewood, was less oily, was much cheaper and easier to work with. It has great projection, it can be easily and reliably taken down to thicknesses that allow it to be tuned precisely and it's quite stable through temp and humidity changes. And it sounds great.

(My underlining): I'm pretty certain Al didn't use it as for the top of a classical flat-top guitar, or did he? I know Dowina have built a limited run of guitars with Bohemian oak for B&S, which turned out wonderful. And I seem to recall reading about 19th. century "poor" instruments made of bog oak that weren't bad all (the surviving ones). Can't seem to find any trace of that anymore though so it may be a dreamt memory.

[Jimmy blue note]

(My underlining): I'm pretty certain Al didn't use it as for the top of a classical flat-top guitar, or did he?.

Precisely. Back and sides.