shaving a flat top saddle

[pingu]

Hi all ,

I’ve got this saddle on a flat top
short scale travel guitar



it plays pretty good but i want to take the action down a bit ….

i plan on removing the saddle and sanding the bottom 1or 2 mm

I plan on mark it with a sharpie then sand it to the mark

it’s got a piezo pickup under there
i think ….

any tips or warnings before proceeding with this ?

[guitar1303]

I recently shaved the saddle on my Taylor Baby Taylor travel guitar using the method you describe (Baby Taylors are notorious for needing the action lowered - which is quite a surprise because their full-size acoustics have such great action). It worked well. I'd make sure that you measure the action at the twelfth fret before you start shaving so that you have a starting point for how much you want to shave off.

Don't remove the strings when you do this; loosen them a great deal, release them from the bridge pins, and then capo the strings at around the fifth or sixth fret. Since they are still attached to the tuners, it's so easy to string up the guitar when you're finished. I had to shave 3 times to finally get it where I wanted it so the ability to quickly re-pin the strings was really convenient. (I also kept in mind that it's better to not shave enough than to shave too much so I was really cautious -- which is why it required 3 shaves.)

Other than being careful not to damage the piezo element in the bridge, your plan should work well.

I'm planning on doing this soon with a parlor-size acoustic I own.

[Hammertone]

If the guitar has a bolt-on neck, it's much easier and simpler to shim the neck than to shave the bridge.

[pingu]

1290901[/URL]]If the guitar has a bolt-on neck, it's much easier and simpler to shim the neck than to shave the bridge.

gottcha

no it’s a glued in neck
but thanks

[pingu]

I recently shaved the saddle on my Taylor Baby Taylor travel guitar using the method you describe (Baby Taylors are notorious for needing the action lowered - which is quite a surprise because their full-size acoustics have such great action). It worked well. I'd make sure that you measure the action at the twelfth fret before you start shaving so that you have a starting point for how much you want to shave off.

Don't remove the strings when you do this; loosen them a great deal, release them from the bridge pins, and then capo the strings at around the fifth or sixth fret. Since they are still attached to the tuners, it's so easy to string up the guitar when you're finished. I had to shave 3 times to finally get it where I wanted it so the ability to quickly re-pin the strings was really convenient. (I also kept in mind that it's better to not shave enough than to shave too much so I was really cautious -- which is why it required 3 shaves.)

Other than being careful not to damage the piezo element in the bridge, your plan should work well.

I'm planning on doing this soon with a parlor-size acoustic I own.

thanks , good info ….

[Freeman Keller]

That looks like it is pretty low to start with. Remember that to lower your 12th fret action by X you need to remove 2X from the saddle height. In general you want to have about 1/8 of an inch of saddle sticking out of a normal 3/8 thick bridge to drive the top well. That puts the strings about 1/2 inch off the top.

Before you do anything with the saddle check the neck angle. Lay a 24 inch straight edge on the frets and let the end touch the bridge. A good neck angle on a properly humidified guitar will put the end of the straight edge on top of the bridge or just a hair over it. If the straight edge is lower, running in to the face of the bridge your guitar may be ready for a neck reset. One of the tests is a little boolean - IF you have acceptable action AND you have at least 1/8 inch of saddle sticking out THEN your neck angle is OK

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Just be sure that everything else is fine before you cut the bridge saddle. The truss rod, neck, nut etc all affect action - and they all affect it at different places on the neck. For example, lowering the saddle will lower the action most at the last fret and least at the first if the neck, frets and truss rod are fine with minimal relief, flat fretboard and proper angle. If the neck has too much relief but is otherwise fine, tightening the truss rod will lower action least at the last fret.

If the guitar has had any significant work, it may need more than a single maneuver to restore uniform action from the nut to the end of the fingerboard. For example, if the board’s been planed or the frets were leveled multiple times, the action may be progressively higher from one end of the board to the other.

Measure the action at every fret on every string, so you have a clear idea of what’s wrong and what needs to be done to correct it.

[pingu]

thanks
yes the nut is fine
the neck is straight , no relief

i think the saddle has got to
come down a bit

perhaps I should buy a couple
of blanks in case i go too far

where can I purchase a couple of
saddles in that 4 and 2 style ?

[Freeman Keller]

I'll say it again. Before you go any further check the neck angle and measure everything. Saying "no relief" is not good enough, I measure relief in thousands of an inch, what is yours? What is the action at the 12th fret - that will tell you how much you need to remove when it comes time to actually shave the saddle. You think it has a piezo pickup, have you actually checked? It might have a shim from a previous attempt at lowering. Is the guitar properly humidified?

Plastic saddles can be purchased from the manufacturer and many aftermarket sources like StewMac. There are different widths and thicknesses, many do not have the B string compensation (you can do it yourself). I make a bone saddle to fit each guitar I work on.

This is something I wrote for another forum and I do the evaluation phase for every guitar that crosses my work bench

(3) Basic Setup | Telecaster Guitar Forum (tdpri.com)

It would be worth your while to read thru it.

[1charlie]

You already have a pretty shallow break angle of the strings across the saddle on the treble side.

Is the action high across all six strings, or specifically on the bass side?

if you sand the saddle even lower, you may need to also ramp the pin slots to achieve an acceptable break angle on that treble side in particular.

I am usually all for DIY, but in this instance, it might be worth the money for a good evaluation and set-up by a competent luthier. Someone you can trust to give it you straight, who won’t immediately recommend a costly neck reset (which is good for their bottom line!).

Of course, your risk of lowering the saddle is minimal in this case (the price of a new saddle). But you still might not end up with the guitar playing the way you want. Nut slots, relief, neck angle and saddle height are all involved in that equation.

It would help to know how old the guitar is (the older, the more likely that the neck angle has shallowed), and where a straight edge placed on the fretboard touches the bridge.

[sgosnell]

thanks
yes the nut is fine
the neck is straight , no relief

i think the saddle has got to
come down a bit

perhaps I should buy a couple
of blanks in case i go too far

where can I purchase a couple of
saddles in that 4 and 2 style ?

https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tool.../tusq-saddles/

IMO you may as well go ahead and do the work on the saddle. Worst case, you will need a new saddle, which is readily available. And you may learn something in the process. I'm glad you asked this, because in the process of searching, I found that StewMac has Tusq saddles for Gibson flat-tops with adjustable bridges, something I've been looking for.

[pingu]

So I took some advice from here
went ahead ….

so I slackened the strings off
put a capo on the first fret to restrain
the strings ….

So I’m teasing out the high E bridge pin and the head of it shears off !

same thing with the b string pin !

so I’ve aborted the job for now ….

and I’ve ordered a set of bridge pins
and a couple of saddle blanks from
all parts UK

pretty bad quality huh ?
ps
I wasn’t heavy handed , I’ve
changed strings on my old
Yam acoustic a few times without issues

[Freeman Keller]

Reach inside the sound hole with something like a quarter, push up on the end of the pins. Pins should be held in place by the side pressure of the string balls, they should not need to be wedged tightly in the hole. Its hard to tell if yours have been slotted, but I like to do that with all my acoustics.

[sgosnell]

I would speculate that the pins were partially broken from string tension before you tried to remove them. They look like plastic, and probably not particularly strong plastic. About all I can suggest is to do as Freeman said, and use something to push up on the bottom of the pins. Once they pop loose removal should be easy. Getting them to pop loose might take some effort, though, as soft plastic can get wedged pretty tightly sometimes.

[pingu]

yes will do ….
thanks all

[pingu]

So I’ve done the work
(the broken pins came out
fairly easily pressing from
underneath)

I’ve shaved and shimmed the
saddle and it’s about right now



it’s a tiny change to the eye
(less than a mm prob)
but
it makes a HUGE change to
the action and playability
comfort etc

it plays great now
many thanks again all