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Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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12-31-2022 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by RJVB
Also. there is no radius on a Classical. Isn't one necessary to play some Jazz chords? I can play Bossa Nova style chords on my Yamaha, but that's about it.
What I do not know about Wu is whether he can / will build a wider neck / fretboard. His site doesn't mention any custom stuff.
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Originally Posted by docsteve
My video is just to show sizing, not to show that that is how I play. Do your fingers slide between the strings, or do you have to push them apart to put your finger thought the "string plane"?
Yes, everything costs more, but once in a while... I went to buy a suit in LA a few years ago and ended up at Kosins in Beverly Hills, where all the NBA cats shop. I got a $2000 suit some NBA cat decided he didn't want, for the price of tailoring! They were going to through it away!
A "standard" guitar? Forget it! The first one I bought was a $500 Kort Joe Beck (amazing guitar!) that feels like a piccolo. It goes to sale soon.
Also forget putting my thumb on the back of the neck. My thumb would have to be about 1/2 it's length. It's just not possible. If I curl it under thought, I can do it.
The second guitar I bought was "Big Lou" 335 clone. It needed a complete set-up (expensive here in LA) to be playable. 2" nut, 2" @ RH (not enough, I want 60+ mm there). It's not a great guitar, but it's OK. I see their "Aspen" acoustic. Still no RH string spread.
I talked to Lou. Defense contractor with $$$. Will talk your ear off. Fascinating cat!
Thanks for your input, Stephen!
- Jeff
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The more I read this thread, the more I begin to believe that your problem is not size, but technique. How long have you been playing guitar? Have you used a teacher? Perhaps instead of trying to adapt instruments to your technique, it might be more productive to adapt your technique to the instruments. Of course, this is just an uninformed observation from a random stranger on the internet.
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Originally Posted by sgosnell
As I've stated, I "can" play a normal size guitar (or at least one with a "wide-ish" neck), but it's clear that a larger one fits better, is more comfortable, etc.
Next time I'm in NY, I'm going to try to get a lesson with Pasquale Grasso. He's half my age, but he's a great player, and he teaches at SUNY Purchase.
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Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall
You didn't really answer sgosnell's question, how long have you been playing guitar? No offense, but that are you a virtuoso on sax and piano really has no bearing if you are 1 or 2 years into playing the guitar to be honest. I play decent blues guitar but just started chromatic harmonica, there is really no changeover, it's a completely different instrument and none of my guitar skills have any bearing on it other than knowing when I'm botching my scales and such i.e ear training.
Getting your fretting hand limber, quick, and accuracy with speed on a guitar is a long process. It's not like a sax where the keys are where they are and your hands don't have to do anything but press down in the same spots. Or like a piano where there is lots of room for any hand and finger size. You may just be seeking gains by altering the instrument where really it's just a matter of time spent with your guitar and developing your fretting hand.
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Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall
Also. there is no radius on a Classical. Isn't one necessary to play some Jazz chords? I can play Bossa Nova style chords on my Yamaha, but that's about it.
What I do not know about Wu is whether he can / will build a wider neck / fretboard. His site doesn't mention any custom stuff.
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I’m average height and hand size, and I can’t slip my finger between the guitar strings either. That isn’t how we pluck the strings.
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Pasquale has long fingers, as others have stated, and he can harmoniously reach 9 frets from the 9th and he can do this all day long.. He's no slouch with the RH either....
S
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Originally Posted by DawgBone
My hands are lightning fast always have been. Some folks here are not understanding my point, but that's OK. I was 6' 3" when I was about 15, and I wore a size 13 shoe then, too. But I can't wear a size 13 shoe today (16 now), nor the clothes that I wore back then.
I have a nice 1987 Schwinn Tempo racing bike that's ideally sized for a 6'4" guy. I "can" ride it but .. it hurts after about an hour. I "can" wear a size 15 shoe, but I'll get blisters. I "can" play golf with standard size clubs, but I play much better with ones that fit me (which are a whopping 7" longer than standard). I "can" cram into a normal car, but I have a van instead, which is actually comfortable for me. And I "can" play a smaller guitar, but why do so if something that actually fits properly can be had? Hardly anything fits me "off the shelf." Why would guitar be the one thing in my life that fits "as is"?
Heck, I "can" date a 4'11" chick (and I have), but why, when 6' chicks exist? (all other things being equal of course).
Let's not lay blame at my guitar technique. It's not a problem. 1.5 years, well long enough to know what fits and what doesn't. The problem, if you will, is standardization and economies of scale in the guitar industry, just like everything else.
One can get fitted for a high-end bicycle on a machine that measure every aspect of one's physique to get the proper fit. One goes to a tailor to get a suit properly cut. Why should a musical instrument not fit the player?
Every single aspect of my saxophone, mouthpiece, etc. is properly set up to fit me. Sax mouthpieces are a really big deal in terms of interfacing with the player's mouth. I have TMJ, so I have to use a longer facing curve, a custom job. So, there's nothing new about trying to get a guitar to fit, for me.
As Marcia Ball infamously sings, it's about having the "right tool for the job."
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this guy has big hands too or a small guitar
or Scott T.
S
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Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall
Thanks for the feedback on Lou‘s guitars. I suspected that. Still while I adjusted my technique to the instrument, I might still get a wider neck from him some day.
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Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall
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Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall
Your answer, playing 1.5 years, tells me kind of what I suspected. Your technique isn't yet developed. Even if you play 8 hours a day you are a long way out from what you will become. I have quick hands too, it doesn't mean it automatically transfers to a guitar situation. You are looking for mechanical advantages but those actually offer minimal improvements once you have developed your technique. Speed and precision take a long time to develop on the guitar. I get that you want an instrument that fits you. I play an ES style guitar and it looks small.
You want a guitar that fits you but reality is even an 18" archtop is going to look like a toy on you. Yes, you want a wider neck, understandable, I get it. However, my suggestion is to continue practicing a lot for a couple more years before you drop big money on something custom fit to what you currently think is your preference, because the truth is, you don't really know yet.
As I said, I played sax as a side instrument for about two years. I had no clue what kind of mouthpiece and reed I should settle on, let alone what horn I would purchase if I had gone all it on it. I hadn't spent enough time with a horn to make a real informed decision. I was green. No offense, but with the guitar so are you. I got twenty years into guitar and shifted gears completely on what guitar I was playing and amp I was using. But, it's your money. Just some friendly advice...sometimes we think we have certain instrument needs only to later find out that we were making more of it than it really needed to be. I wish I had all the money back on guitar stuff I ultimately found out I didn't need at all, I'd have a big pocket full of cash, lol. You're still likely finding your guitar voice, so at least keep that in mind. Regardless, best of fortunes on all your musical endeavors and may you reach all your guitar goals.
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Large guitars do exist.
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To continue Dawgbone's last comment: look at left-handed players. How many instruments beside the guitar exist in "lefty" versions? There are probably more left-handed players than players who're too big for their instrument of choice and yet they learn to play "like everyone else". I'm not aware that this puts them in an unfavourable position while I know all too well what happens if you force them to write right-handed for instance.
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Originally Posted by SOLR
The question is not "should I get a wide neck guitar." Rather, it's "how to get one."
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Originally Posted by RJVB
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Originally Posted by RJVB
Don't I want a low action for Jazz chords? The way the Seagull is set-up is great. I just find myself wanting to pull the strings out to where they should be (for me).
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Originally Posted by grahambop
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Originally Posted by DawgBone
The "Big Lou" informed me that a 2" nut is a good size for me. But also that 2" at the RH is too small for me.
On saxophone, I watched Phil Woods from two feet away and .. his hands did not appear to move. AT ALL! Seven nights in a row, front seat, Baker's Keyboard Lounge (Detroit). 1970s.
And I tried to copy Phil's hand position. Which would give anybody carpel tunnel. My hands are not built like Phil's. It was only when I "gave in" to the size of my hands and how to place them on my horn that I saw progress. This was in 1975 or so. I subsequently practiced 15 hours a day.
James Carter (in the photo) uses Phil's hand position. And he has insane technique, as good (or better) than anybody in the business. I (standing next to him and looking like an under-dressed dork in comparison) have my fingers in a weird position (just the way the photo came out). James looks taller than me here, but he's about 6'1" to my 6'6".
But my sax technique is as fast as James' is. I don't triple tongue like him though; nobody does. Not even Wynton.
One has to do what works for them. And I was told that I actually outplayed James that day, which, given the pianist, was the right time to do it!
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Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall
There are enough people playing jazz on classical guitars AFAIK, so it's not like that cannot be done.
In fact, back when I started I discussed (on a different forum) my idea to have a resonator converted to nylon strings and use that. One of the comments I got was that this was an excellent idea because nylon strings force you to use a better (not my words; he probably meant more deliberate/precise) technique.
You already have a classical guitar. Trying a set of the strings in question will cost you $15-20 (haven't checked their price) and the time it takes to change the strings (the trebles at least have ball-ends so no need even to fumble with the tie-block).
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Sorry if this has been brought up before, but this thread is too long for me to read every post. Have you considered a baritone guitar? I own two, a steel-string from Furch and an electric from Gretsch. I've had the Furch for several years but the Gretsch is fairly new. I'm average size and have rather small hands. On the Furch, most of the "normal" chords for a normal six-string are simply not playable for me. I usually play it more like a bass with mostly single-note lines. On the Gretsch, I can play chords more easily, but it's not really intended to be used that way, at least not for people with small-to-medium-sized hands. For you, it might work on both instruments and I bet it would be cheaper than having a standard guitar modified and more likely to lead to satisfactory results, in my opinion.
The scale length is noticeably longer than for a standard guitar, however, I haven't measured it on either guitar. Nor have I measured the width of the nut. However, I believe that both baritones have narrower nuts than my standard-sized classical guitar, which is the instrument I play the most.
The range goes pretty high on both. The high string is B. I don't recall off-hand how many frets they have, but I think the Gretsch has at least nineteen, if not more. It has quickly become one of my favorite instruments to play and the Furch is one of the best quality instruments I have. Possibly worth a try.
I noticed you asked about low action for playing jazz. In my opinion, it's not necessary. My preference for the action on any guitar-like instrument (except lap- or pedal-steel, of course) and for any kind of music is high enough to avoid fret buzz as much as possible, without negatively affecting the intonation too much. Like the old saying for engineering of any kind: "As much as necessary, as little as possible".
Hope this helps.
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Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall
SLast edited by SOLR; 12-31-2022 at 08:29 PM.
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Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall
My son is/was a tenor player so I know the mouthpiece routine a bit and the crazy cost of horns. They want seriously big money for some of those mouthpieces. I drilled him on scales and such until he surpassed me in theory knowledge. I taught him growling into his horn for blues and soul stuff. He can sight read at a very high level. He was able to place very high in state level competitions here in TX but ultimately is pursuing a different career path after seeing my own struggles with a music career. Not easy for any player of any instrument at any skill level anywhere in the world.
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