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Yep. I do a quarter at a turn, and allow for a few hours between each one. Truss-rod work in this household takes a couple of days.
@ the OP -- I've been doing my own setups, including truss-rod adjustments, for twenty-five years.
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06-24-2016 04:37 AM
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It would depend on the goal. 1/8 if i want the change to be subtle, if i want it to be more drastic i might turn more - 1/4 or similar and then wait and see .....
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Probably because, at certain points, an 1/8th turn can make a big difference in straightness, particularly with old-style single action rods ( i.e. Gibson).
When adjusting, I always de-stress the neck by putting hand pressure on to bend the neck slightly backwards, at the same time as turning the truss rod nut slowly. This takes the pressure off the rod and the nut to some degree, and is the 'manual ' equivalent of clamping the neck into a slight back bow; relatively little pressure is required.
Using the string itself as a straightedge works for me
NB slightly..
I can't imagine playing the guitar without being able to adjust the rod periodically. What else would people do, take it to a tech??
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Me too. 1/8 turn a time.
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If you need to tighten the rod, always turn it a tiny bit the opposite direction first to be sure the rod isnt at its max. adjustment already. This way as you start to tighten it youll feel if its workable or not. Kind of what they do when tuning a piano. Ive had a few guitars come through the shop with rods already maxed out and a quarter of a turn more would have snapped the rod. Better safe than sorry. Bob
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I've learned something from this. I suspect I turn too much at a time, and don't wait long enough to see the effects before trying again.
Thanks all for this wisdom of experience!
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2B, you're familiar with the cliché 'patience is a virtue'. It truly is with respect to adjusting truss rod tension. The wood takes time to compress and decompress, and 1/8 turn can make a big difference. I have very little patience, so it's very difficult for me to wait for the change to occur. Best to do something else for a while, and the longer the better. I don't think 15 minutes is enough. On the question of setups, If you're talking about guitars, yes, I do basic setups myself. I got tired of running to our friend the luthier every time a guitar arrived and needed setup, or changed string gauge, or the seasonal humidity average in the house changed. It takes some confidence building when you first start doing it, and save a lot of time and money doing it yourself.
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I might wait for a day (or a week if it's a student's guitar ;-)) Fortunately i don't do these setups for a living so i'm not under time pressure .....
Originally Posted by skykomishone
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I turn that truss rod as far as it will go until I hear a loud crack. Then I go out and buy a new guitar.
Just kidding. Depending on how curved the neck is when I start, I go about 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn and let the instrument sit for a day. Patience in this case is definitely a virtue.
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1/8th to 1/4
I also let it settle for a day or 2
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Trouble is, some folks then flog it off on an unsuspecting other... Originally Posted by hot ford coupe
I turn that truss rod as far as it will go until I hear a loud crack. Then I go out and buy a new guitar.
Patience is definitely a virtue. The trouble with truss rods is that they encourage the impulse to keep turning. It is too damn easy and the obsessive-compulsive doesn't stop until he fooks it up. When you see the truss rod doing something to the fretboard, you have gone too far! Too late. You can't back it off. Compressed wood at the anchor end of the truss rod does not spring back. It remains compressed. Originally Posted by hot ford coupe
Truss rods have a life-span. Help it along. Put some weight on the fretboard to force the relief and then adjust the truss rod nut to hold that relief. The truss rod should not be doing the heavy lifting of forcing the neck relief. Yes, it can do that but you definitely shorten its life and are not using the tool correctly for the job. Sort of like using a dressmaker's scissors to cut paper. Or your guitar as a doorstop. Or your fancy Corvette to haul groceries.Last edited by Jabberwocky; 06-24-2016 at 02:06 PM.
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I bought an ES137 at a guitar Center in Manhattan where the sales associate promptly yanked on the truss rod wrench when the loud crack sounded.
Despite his protests that this was "normal" I demanded and received an immediate refund.
The associate hung the guitar back up on the wall in front of me.
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try loosening the strings first if the rod is getting close to maxing out.
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and on a 'double way adjustment rod' one knows "the rod is getting close to maxing out" when? Originally Posted by wintermoon
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Define "righty tighty" "lefty loosy?"
I see this term often used, but no one references turning to the "right" or "left" from above or below the nut. It's assumed you already know what the point of observation is.
Same for turning clockwise or counter clockwise.
If your frame of reference to initiate the turn is turning clockwise, right, from above the nut - great...it's the reverse if the turn is initiated with a reference below the nut.
The point of this thread is to eliminate assumptions. If you want to assume, assume the individual you're attempting to educate has never seen a guitar in their life before...how's about that for an assumption?
I generated this thread after viewing countless youtube videos, most of which don't cover something as basic as establishing a point of reference before turning a truss rod. It's assumed you already know where the point of reference is.
edit - after viewing countless youtube videos I've finally found 1 that establishes a turning reference above the nut
So, if I've an upward bow I'm to turn right in 1/8th turn increments, or tighten, to remove relief?Last edited by 2bornot2bop; 06-24-2016 at 08:58 PM.
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A notched neck ruler makes adjusting a truss rod a much better experience. Aluminum ones are not expensive.
UAAC - United Appalachian Aluminum Company-Notched
I use a very sparing amount of light grease on the threads. You don't want oil or grease getting on the wood. I make sure there is a good amount of support (washer, bar, whatever your guitar maker used) between the bolt and wood. I'm not as careful as some here about turning the bolt once I make sure everything is as it should be. Maybe I'll break a truss rod one day but you can feel the tension including when you've reached the limit of adjustment. If I'm in doubt and the guitar still needs something, I take it to a tech.
BTW.. if you break a truss rod you don't necessarily have a dead guitar. The fretboard has to come off and that's not a minor job but worth having done if you like the guitar.Last edited by Spook410; 06-24-2016 at 06:32 PM.
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There's some good suggestions.
I agree with first loosening the nut a little before tightening it. That gives you a feel of the resistance before you tighten into new territory. Also, I also put a drop of oil on the nut and treads before loosening it and make sure the oil gets under the nut to decrease friction. The hope is that the rod threads will last a little longer.
Once you learn the character of your guitar, you'll have a better idea of how much to tighten it at a time. Some necks are very responsive.
You can put a capo at the first fret and at the 14th to judge the amount of relief left. Some people use a 3x5" card as a feeler gauge. Sighting down the neck is much harder to rely on.
I do think that many people put the action too low. They get string slap sounds, which to me degrades the performance. Some people like the sound though. I'm not a fan. When tune after tune has that quality, I assume it is not a desired effect, just a sign of weak hands.
Being from Michigan, I do adjust the TR. But the more you can avoid that and tolerate a higher action, the fewer problems you'll have. When you do need to make an adjustment, go slow, leave the TR cover off, play the guitar a while, then tighten a bit more if you have to.
Loosening the TR seems less hazardous, but that may be an illusion. If you loosen the TR much, that probably means you tightened it too much last winter and may due the same in the near future.
My two cents.
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You should have swung the thing directly at his cranium in order to hear another crack. Then tell him that's a normal crack. This moron needs either some education or another job. Originally Posted by boatheelmusic
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I agree! As I noted above, when I work on a truss rod, I have the guitar in a cradle with the notched straight-edge of the appropriate scale length on the guitar. I put a light behind it so I can see where the neck has too much relief or a center bow. It makes it much easier to see exactly what difference the adjustment makes. Originally Posted by Spook410
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Removing neck relief is easy. It is increasing neck relief that is the tricky bit.
Honestly folks, 22.5 degrees adjustment is too coarse. Too much, too soon. To increase relief, I will start with a weight balanced on the fretboard or put some hand pressure on it and go 1/16th of a turn. And then wait for the wood to adjust to the new tension before adjusting it again, if necessary. I find +/- 1/16th turn is all that is required, most times.
I do like a relatively flat fretboard with almost no discernible relief. YMMV.
A Gibson truss rod replacement is a $1500 jobbie. A neck replacement is $2200. And you take a hit on the market resale value after the repair. That is for a Gibson. I don't know about other makes but for an American or European or even a Japanese guitar, it can't be very different to what Gibson charges. Those cheaper-est MiCs are priced to be disposable so may as well buy a new one when the truss rod breaks.
The first time you break the truss rod is the time you won't readily forget. You will acquire newfound respect for the truss rod.
Ever wonder why the truss rod seems to run out of room for adjustment over time? Run out of thread? The wood at the anchor end is getting compressed by you torquing down on the truss rod, that is why. Mahogany, especially, is soft. Maple is a little better but not by much.
If you don't believe me, at least, believe Dan Erlewine. That man makes a lot of sense.
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I agree. Now, it's a matter of taste whether one wants that slap but I don't want it either in my jazz playing. Another thing is that a low action only allows for a smaller range of dynamics like if a compressor was used. If one wants that majestic thunder from a big acoustic archtop, one doesn't get it with a low action. The string amplitude needs to be clear of the fretboard to ensure a freely vibrating string and digging in calls for a higher action. Originally Posted by Marty Grass
As a side remark, I may say that I never understood why Fredie Green had his action THAT high on his Gretsch (it was not quite as high on his Stromberg). I'd think less could do. But then, there are many aspects of Greens playing I don't fully understand, partly because he was very protective about his trade secrets. I suspect it was also about other things than just volume (his half muting technique? - or maybe a neck set problem he never got around to have corrected because he could manage the high action?).
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2B,
There are countless picture images showing the frame of reference. If you google 'truss rod adjustment' and go to images. Typically, it's from the headstock looking down the neck. Have fun, brother.
S
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While we're talking about this, what do you all think of the practice of using a washer to create more room for adjustment on a truss rod that is maxed out?
The alternative, if I understand correctly, is to loosen the rod, and carefully on a rest or jig of some kind, flex the neck slightly and then tighten the rod to that point, essentially re-setting the tension level relative to the straightness of the neck.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on that--or should I make this a separate thread?
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My understanding - from the dan erlewine book- is that these are two independent 'remedial' actions. If the rod really is maxed ( i.e. the nut is up against the end of the screw thread on the rod), but the threads are still ok, it has to have a washer inserted to enable it to work again; it can't otherwise.
The jig idea ( clamping into a back bow and then adjusting) is for rods which aren't necessarily maxed out, but which can't exert any more adjustment force against the pull of the strings.
The snag in practice is to know which is which, as the symptoms will be similar! Probably trying the washer first would be the safer approach, as it can't do any harm in the latter case.
There is something called ( by the former member here PTChris) the 's-shaped neck'. This is where the truss rod pulls part of the neck into a back bow whilst leaving the other part still with forward relief. I have experienced this phenomenon in a new 2000s L4CES, and it was maddening. Rather than address it though refretting and subsequent fixing by variable fret levelling, I sold it. Just another hazard of buying a new guitar - the salesroom is probably the worst possible place to check whether a truss rod is good...
ps PT Chris does drop in under another name - maybe he will here. His takes on things were always good reading, and written with aplomb
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I have a recent truss rod story.
I bought a 1992 Gibson ES 135 a few months ago & did my typical amateur tweak & set up, including a small truss rod adjustment. The adjustment was really stiff & I got a little paranoid about the whole procedure even though nothing when wrong. This was an older used guitar, but the tightness nagged at me, so I decided to go back in after a few weeks. This time, I loosened the strings first, put a drop of oil on the truss rod nut, and the loosened the truss rod until it was completely free. What a difference it made. The truss rod now turns easily, and the neck is easy to put into perfect adjustment. It felt like there might be a problem, but a little delicate TLC and now all is good.
I'm glad I backed it off & put on a little lube!
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