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Phil Jacoby of Baltimore is an excellent person to see.
http://www.philtone.com
You may however find somethings out about your instrument that you did not want to know...
After...
Last edited by iim7V7IM7; 03-04-2014 at 12:30 PM.
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03-04-2014 11:51 AM
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Plek'ing is a good technique but it's not a panacea. If your neck has significant rise or fall, it's impossible to plek it and achieve the results you are looking for. Additionally, if you do not have tall frets to begin with, the plek'ing process may end up giving you virtually no fret.
I have had a couple plek'd guitars and they both played great. I have also had my luthier do many manual fret jobs as well as manual fret leveling. They play just as good as the plek'd guitars.
Pleking is a good way for a factory to achieve low action, particularly because it seems that many factories do not want to employ someone with as much skill in fret leveling as my luthier.
But it's not magic.
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I'm kinda surprised that this thread appeared again after over a year's time of inactivity. But, I guess in a way, it's good that it did. Here's why; iim7 showed some of the read outs from the Plek, prioir to the work being done. In my opinion . . and for the reasons that Jack stated . . this is probably the single most important aspect of getting a fret board Plek'd. As Jack pointed out . . most competent and skilled luthiers can get a fret board near enough to perfect, that one wouldn't be able to discern a perfect Plek job from a great fret leveling job as accomplished by a luthier.
However, with that being said . . IMHO . . there is no way that a luthier could [read] a fret board as accurately as computer guided machine. When I took my brand new (at the time) Heritage Golden Eagle down to Phil Jacoby, he looked down the neck and asked me my opinion of how the guitar played. Now keep in mind, I had just picked the guitar up from the Heritage plant 2 weeks or so earlier. I told him that I thought it played OK and that other than my curiousity of what was actually behind all the buzz over this Plek set up, that I wouldn't have even considered having it Plek'd.
He sat down and played it a bit . . (the dude can play!) . . and he agreed that it played well just as it was. Then, he asked me to play so he could see how hard I hit. Then, he put it on the Plek and took a reading. When we looked at the reading . . it was obvious that the machine saw things we couldn't. Phil corrected the nut slots (almost always a problem with brand new Heritage archies) corrected two bridge saddle slots, did the Plek, polished the frets up to a stainless steel like shine and restrung it. Then, he handed it back to me to play. The guitar played considerably better . . and perfect to my taste. Important to remember . . the Plek job was done by a very well trained and competent Plek technician (Phil Jacoby) and it was only a part of the overall set up . . not the entirety of it.
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i've heard great things about Phil.
Regarding your comment about there being no way to read a fretboard as well as a computer, i think you're underestimating the accuracy of a straight edge
. Sure you don't know the exact measurements of the peaks and valleys but i don't think you need to. You just need to know (by experience) whether the neck is close enough to being straight where you can do a fret level to solve the issues with the neck.
Folks here won't want to hear this but frankly, a large percentage of new gibsons and heritage guitars need to have the fingerboard planed flat (heritage more than gibson) when they are brand new. If you start out with a bad neck, the frets can be leveled by they will be different heights and depending on how tall the peaks are in your FB, you may not have much meat left for a 2nd or 3rd leveling when you need it down the road.
Many archtops have a tailrise in the fingerboard (where the neck meets the body). Again, this is extremely common with gibson/heritage archtops. I have had to have several gibson and heritage guitars planed and refretted in the upper portion of the neck to fix this issue. Again, a plek or leveling may or may not fix the prob depending on the height of the rise...
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No . . I'm not at all underestimating what a competent tech can do with a fret rocker or a straight edge. I just think a computer aided machine can do it better. The bigger question is . . does one really need the higher degree of perfection that can be achieved by a Plek, as opposed to a very good tech? My answer would be no. Example; you take two guitars, L5s or Golden Eagles, straight out of the factory . . and give them to a guy like Phil Jacoby, or my local guy here in NJ . . or your local luthier who seems to have your total confidence . . and tell them to make both guitats play perfectly, or as perfectly as they possibly can . . but, they are only allowed to used a Plek on one of them. I'd bet a very pretty sum of money that you, me and anyone else wouldn't be able to accurately identify which had the Plek and which was done without it.
But, here's what I always did want to do . . I'd like to give a guitar to a very good tech and instruct him to make it perfect without a Plek reading or a Plek job . . . then, after it was done . . put it on a Plek and take a reading. That would be interesting.
Regarding tail rise . . the GE that Phil Plek'd for me had/has the opposite problem. The tail dropped off significantly at and past the 17th fret. It isn't the neck pitch, it's definitely drop off. The Plek really showed the drop off in the read out. Came out of the Heritage factory like that. When Rendal was doing the final set up, he showed it to me and asked if it would be a problem for me. I assured him it would be a problem if it was a Gibson SG . . but, I doubted I'd ever be at or above the 17th fret on a 17" arch top.
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Who's your guy in NJ?
I use Mark Simon...
http://www.marksimonguitars.com/
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i play pretty high up on most of my instruments so that would probably bother me. I think the plek can do a better job than a human too. When I am being super critical on an instrument that will be my main axe, I will spend the money to have the fingerboard planed. This is the best way to go if you have a good neck angle and if you don't have a tail-dip like yours did.
Then, there's no need for major fret leveling.
Most pro guitarists I know routinely do this on all factory made instruments. Some folks like Sheryl Bailey go so far as to have the fingerboard planed, frets filled and then have new fret slots cut with more accurate intonation. She did this on her Ibanez PM-120.
I have found ibanez high end necks and fret work to be way better than gibson,guild,fender,prs, etc. Never played a GB10 or PM120/100 that needed any kind of planing or leveling beyond routine maintenance.
I'd love to know how they accomplish that.
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P.S.
The guy who does my work is Ken Lesko - Rainbow Instrument Repair. George Benson sent him some guitars to work on. That's how good he is.
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I use two techs/luthiers . . Steve Hayes of Steve's Studio in Colonia NJ. He's my go to guy if I need expert set up work. But, Steve can do just about anything. For actual wood working, repair refin etc., I use Ronaldo Orlandoni of Pastore's Music in Union City.
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Wouldnt it be just easier to replace the fingerboard?
Originally Posted by jzucker
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Yeah, that was what I thought. Also, even if the frets' intonation is off it can't be off by more than a few microns each. This means that new fret slots are likely to overlap the old filled-in ones and I'll like to know how well the new frets will hold. What does the luthier use as filler that bonds structurally with the rosewood or ebony board and grips the tangs as well?
Not doubting Jack but it seems like a bizarre approach based on my own limited understanding. Would have been easier to just replace the board.Last edited by Jabberwocky; 03-04-2014 at 04:06 PM.
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What worries me about Plek is that it is done under tension often so what if you switch string brands , higher gauge etc in future or adjust truss rod ...
Apparently if done properly they level the fretboard check nut etc. and minimal amounts are shaved off.
Gibson for awhile was shaving large amounts off their new Guitars where it was noticeable ...
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Those doubts probably come from the lack of general knowledge about how the Plek process actually works. To this to be optimal, the operator should be a luthier with some experience, and the skill of the right interpretation of the graph the machine provides.
An acquaintance of mine operates the only Plek station in Italy, so I had the privilege to witness the whole process from the get go.
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I remember the first articles in Tonequest Magazine and spoke to the shop in Nashville [ Glaser in Nashville one of the first to have PLEK system ] ...so I have a good ( not perfect - don't need it )layman's understanding.
Ideally they will plane or sand the fingerboard dead flat to the prescribed radius then do the minimal amount of fret shaving....and I guess the ' under tension ' thing has a lot of restrictions , qualifications.
But some lesser known Companies in the USA ....like *Gibson ....have been abusing the heck out of the PLEK with new Guitars so the frets are 5 to 10 mil flatter than spec. and shaped like railroad tracks - which is a lot of removal for a new Guitar .
So how the PLEK system is supposed to be used and some real world applications are a bit scary.
I actually may grab a used Guitar and have it refretted in the future so I like the idea of the PLEK as long as I have .045 to .047 high frets everywhere on new Jescar frets which are .047 high from Factory.
Is that reasonable ?
* I imagine Gibson is no longer doing this but you could really see it on the Les Pauls for example.
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As long as the thread is resurrected ...
I had one guitar set up by Gary Brawer. There was a little string buzz and he recommended Plek.
I could not tell the difference before vs. after the Plek.
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Did he do the Plek for you?
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Some guitars (far from the majority) show a notably different overall neck profile under string and truss rod tension/compression vs. under no tension/compression.
For those few guitars, the PLEK can be a remarkable time saver vs. carefully observing the situation under string and truss rod tension/compression, but “leveling” the frets under no tension/compression.
In the majority of cases, the Plek is just another way to get the job done.
In a production environment it could be a notable time saver.
For individual guitars it can sometimes be a significant help in precision, but also VERY (very very very) often not observably better than a skilled luthier luthiating in the old way.
That one player will report a PLEK experience as being a miracle, and another saying there was no perceivable difference is absolutely consistent with the variables in discussion.
And any operator can direct the PLEK system to do things that may be expedient in a production environment, but sub-optimal in the majority of cases.
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I own one guitar that went through the Plek process and it was done in Joe Glaser's shop when he was the only one in the US with a PLEK machine. It was and still is the best guitar setup I have encountered. Since that time I've learned quite a bit about guitar setup and do my own and can do a pretty good setup to my tastes.
If I lived near Joe Glaser's shop I would probably have his shop do a few more but I live in now and have lived in a guitar repair setup desert for the past 20+ years so I do it myself.
I would agree that a skilled experienced repairman can get close to or equal a well run Plek operator but there are more frauds, inexperienced repairman than there are Plek Machines.
I would also agree that in a small or large new construction shop the PLEK is a real labor savor. See 4:28 mark
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Always read any fine print: My 2013 LP came with a Plek cut nut. BFD, as the frets were typical modern Gibson rollercoasters in dire need of leveling.
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Based solely on anecdotal information, not personal experience, I wouldn't judge the Plek process by new Gibson guitars. The impression I get is that the general lack of Gibson quality control carries over into the Plek process there. If done carelessly, anything can result in poor quality output. I wouldn't be afraid of getting a Plek setup just because new Gibsons with it are sometimes a mess.
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I have had a custom Tele and Strat pleked and I would recommend it.
It's not better than a really good luthier leveling your frets but it allows a moderately skilled tech to achieve the same results.
And as far as Gibson's "pleked" claims - my Les Paul Trad 2010 has the pleked sticker on the pick-up but Gibson only pleked the nut. That's like putting on 1 winter tire.
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The nearest PLEK machine appears to be over a hundred miles away, and I live in a major metropolitan area. As well as being home to Taylor guitars and Deering banjos, there are several high quality repair shops in town. So why no PLEKs? It may be irrational, but it is one reason I still view PLEK with a lot of skepticism.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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I second that. I have a Gibson. I don't know if it was Plek'd (2013 Memphis ES.) The frets are perfect. Originally Posted by sgosnell
I have had a few guitars Plek'd. There is a local shop that has a machine, and the service has been excellent. You can dice up the merits and faults of Plek'ing. But the best part is that the intent and accuracy is indisputable. In other words, I take my guitar into the shop. I say three things, 1) how high I want the action, 2) what gauge strings I prefer to use, and 3) how high I want the frets to be above the fretboard. Barring anything unusual I should get it back to those specs. If not, they do it again. I don't have to be friends with them to get good work, if you know what I mean. There is a bit of trust, but they know what they are doing. Bottom line: Think of Plek'ing as one thing to take out of a dispute about fret work.
Lastly, I cannot fathom doing decent fret work myself except for minor touch ups. I do a lot of tinkering, but fret work is beyond my pay grade.
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Yes. It was some years ago. I think he'd recently obtained the machine.
The guitar was a Godin Multiac Nylon.
Ultimately, I did not get what I wanted from that service. I asked for low action, but, for some reason, they didn't do it -- I think they may have had a classical player there as a tech who thought that what I was asking for was wrong in some way. The string buzz turned out to be due to the string, not the guitar.
Hideo Kamimoto straightened it out. He reset the neck and gave me the action I wanted.
I believe that the Plek was a waste of money in this case.
Obviously, others have had different experiences.
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I think the machine is $100K+ as well as time away for training. Maybe this? Originally Posted by rlrhett
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