Building an Archtop Guitar

[wwwilkie]

In this section I'm cutting out a ledge for the tailpiece saddle. I thought ebony would be a good choice on this guitar although bone would do the job as well. This provides support for the tailpiece adjuster.
In the first photo I've just rough-cut some ebony pieces which are approximately 1 1/4" wide X 1/4" thick and slightly taller than the binding. These are not critical measurements. Only one ebony piece will be used.
I will find the center of the piece, and use a square to mark the center line.
Placing the saddle on the guitar I will then scribe around the saddle using a sharp knife.
Next I will use a razor saw to make the first two vertical cuts on either side, cutting almost all the way down.
The rest is done with mallet and chisels.
Once the ledge is cut I will shape the saddle a bit more so it fits nicely without any overhang, eliminating the need for much leveling afterward.

[lindydanny]

I always find it funny when I am building things and you get to a point where you have made frame work to carve and then you make that first incision. It drives me nuts! My nerves just can't hold on. If I had put as much into building a guitar as you have and got to this point and made some mistake that ruined the guitar, then I would just have to kill myself.

~DB

[wwwilkie]

I always find it funny when I am building things and you get to a point where you have made frame work to carve and then you make that first incision. It drives me nuts! My nerves just can't hold on. If I had put as much into building a guitar as you have and got to this point and made some mistake that ruined the guitar, then I would just have to kill myself.

~DB

That's funny, I used to think stuff like that.
My training ground was on $40,000 guitars and I think that's where I was forced to develop nerves of steel. Whoops, there goes $5000. Ooops there goes another $3000. I had to approach it in a way that wasn't intimidating. I knew I enjoyed making guitars and just had fun with it, quickly gaining the confidence I needed to build one from scratch, and then another, and so on. When it's fun to work then mistakes aren't such a big deal, and are easily corrected.
If something horrible were to happen, like maybe an anvil falls on it or something I would tell myself "it's only a guitar". Can I say that on here?

[Meggy]

I do believe a similar result can be gained in a 15" body as in a 17" in an amplified instrument but I do think we are drifting into the land of intangibles. Perhaps the key word here is "similar". If I were to approach building a smaller sized guitar with this in mind there would be certain intuitive differences in construction, however small, but in my mind there is no recipe for this. Personally I don't believe a conclusion can be reached, although it certainly is an interesting topic. I guess for me it seems the more I learn, the more there is to learn, and the less scientific I want to become. I think living on a island will do that to you.

I guess I'll just have to order one of each, plus maybe a 16" for comparison purposes! But seriously, cheers for doing your best to answer a difficult question - I can see what you mean about intuitive differences etc. - not something that can easily be given a definitive answer. The thread continues to be fascinating!

[lindydanny]

That's funny, I used to think stuff like that.
My training ground was on $40,000 guitars and I think that's where I was forced to develop nerves of steel. Whoops, there goes $5000. Ooops there goes another $3000. I had to approach it in a way that wasn't intimidating. I knew I enjoyed making guitars and just had fun with it, quickly gaining the confidence I needed to build one from scratch, and then another, and so on. When it's fun to work then mistakes aren't such a big deal, and are easily corrected.
If something horrible were to happen, like maybe an anvil falls on it or something I would tell myself "it's only a guitar". Can I say that on here?

I guess when you work on such a larger scale compared to me... I do small furniture and homewares stuff from friends mostly and almost all of it is under $100 in value. So, I think in smaller $$$.

If I can get my wife convinced, I've been wanting to take some luthier classes and get an apprenticeship. Too bad I'm getting old and have to make mortgage payments!

~DB

[wwwilkie]

I guess when you work on such a larger scale compared to me... I do small furniture and homewares stuff from friends mostly and almost all of it is under $100 in value. So, I think in smaller $$$.

If I can get my wife convinced, I've been wanting to take some luthier classes and get an apprenticeship. Too bad I'm getting old and have to make mortgage payments!

~DB

An understanding wife is the key.

[wwwilkie]

I thought I would put together a little video for this but since it's going to take awhile I'll post some photos first.
From a template I'll trace the oversize neck profile onto a flat-sawn curly maple board, cut them out and plane them down to the correct thickness. I'm using 2 thin pieces of ebony as well for this 5-piece neck. If anyone is interested the centre maple is 5/8", the outer pieces are 3/4" and the ebony pieces are approximately 3/32".
Then, using several clamps, all pieces are glued together.
I'll make a few passes on the jointer to get 2 perfectly flat surfaces for the fingerboard and headstock.
Using pieces cut from the same board I cut out 2 pieces for the headstock "ears" and put them aside for later.
I rout the truss-rod channel using my overhead router with the neck clamped into a fixture which holds it in place.
The last photo is the routed truss-rod slot.

[lindydanny]

Is there a particular reason for using flat-sawn wood as opposed to, say, quarter-sawn? (I'm sure there is, I just want to hear why!)

~DB

[DaveS]

Very nice Wyatt. I really like the pin-route slotting of the T'rod channel.....allows you to curve the floor shallower as you reach the nut if you want (do you do that?).
I just do multiple (mirror) passes on the router table (so the slot remains centered), then with a 1/4" shim on the fence, route for CF reinforcing bars on the same setup.
DB, if I can jump in on your question, you can actually make a more stable neck using flatsawn laminations. That size chunk of quartered will invariably be some form of )))) whereas with laminated , you can do ((lll)) . Much better.

[musicalbodger]

Wyatt, congratulations on a fascinating thread. It's great to see another side of craftsmanship in wood. Always intriguing to see how others do things. I'm a sculptor and have been working in wood as a professional for 35+ years (joiner, furniture maker/restorer, wood turner, now sculptor, all to a very high standard). Gone bust a few times through not compromising on standards so it's great to see such good work.

If you'll forgive me for pointing out something I noticed in one of the videos which was you hitting the end of a chisel with the open palm of your hand. PLEASE use a mallet/block of wood/hammer/etc. If you continue to use your hand it will damage the tendons in your palm and you will be left with a useless claw instead of a hand. I've seen the results and it's not pretty. This was one of the cardinal rules I had beaten into me when I was an apprentice.

Do you find you get into an almost meditative state when shaping the top and back, like there's nothing in the world except you and the piece of wood?
Whereabouts in Wales were you based?

Looking forward to the continuing story.

Bodge

[wwwilkie]

Is there a particular reason for using flat-sawn wood as opposed to, say, quarter-sawn? (I'm sure there is, I just want to hear why!)

~DB

Hi, I think DaveS had a good way of putting it, however I wouldn't argue with someone who uses a different grain configuration for guitar or mandolin necks. I only do it this way because that's the way I started and I've never had any problems. It makes sense to me strength-wise and it shows the figure of the wood really well.

DaveS- I also use the pin-router for carbon fiber channels. Great thing about it is you can do it after the neck extension is attached, something that would be difficult to do using a table saw.

Bodge-I'll forgive you for pointing that out, and I think it's funny you noticed it because I thought about it at the time. If I were doing it regularly it could be a problem, but I'm not worried about it in this case.
For 5 years I had my workshop on Gray's Inn road in Aberystwyth, within spitting distance of the town clocktower.

[mangotango]

I would tell myself "it's only a guitar".

Ummmm...no, sorry old chap, not getting your banter!

"An understanding wife is the key."

To so many, many things.

Wyatt

This is a great thread and thanks for sharing it with us. I keep tuning in to catch the next episode!!

Mango

[musicalbodger]

Bodge-I'll forgive you for pointing that out, and I think it's funny you noticed it because I thought about it at the time. If I were doing it regularly it could be a problem, but I'm not worried about it in this case.

Someone's always watching!! Actually, I mentioned it as much for the sake of others who might be tempted to copy.

For 5 years I had my workshop on Gray's Inn road in Aberystwyth, within spitting distance of the town clocktower.

Know it well, I used to live between Lampeter/Llandovery, but have now moved up to southern Snowdonia. Did you know pedal steel player, Bill Flemming in Aber.

[wwwilkie]

Here is a routing fixture which holds the neck at an angle which is pre-determined, then the dovetail is routed using a guided dovetail router bit.
Second photo is the dovetail after routing.
Next a ledge is routed for the neck extension using a simple guide for the router.
The ledge is cleaned up and the neck extension is glued in place.
Photo 6 shows the perfecly fitted neck extension.
Now the truss-rod can be installed, followed by a spruce filler-strip on top,
then the headstock ears are glued on

[Meggy]

Still following this thread with avid interest. It is a joy to see wood being used with such precision/skill - it convinces me that a guitar-builder I will never be, but also shows clearly just what one is paying for with a hand-crafted instrument such as this.

[wwwilkie]

Still following this thread with avid interest. It is a joy to see wood being used with such precision/skill - it convinces me that a guitar-builder I will never be, but also shows clearly just what one is paying for with a hand-crafted instrument such as this.

Thanks Meggy, I really appreciate your comments.
I'm going to be off for a few days but will hopefully have more photos up later in the week or on the weekend. Till then.

[kenbennett]

Wyatt,

I'm enjoying your building thread. It's interesting to see other builders chiming in (I recognized my friend Mark Piper aka Jazzboxmaker) and non-builders who appreciate the craft.

Were you there in March 2007 when I visited the Benedetto shop? I was actually applying for a job. Mr. Benedetto gave me a 15 minute practical test. I had to mitre some binding (with his grandfather's chisel), and glue in a piece of kerfing, and a couple of other things. They offered me the job, but it didn't work out.

However, I came home from Savannah so inspired that I drew up my own archtop design. Three years went by, then one of my customers graduated from college with a degree in jazz guitar performance. He wanted an archtop, and he liked my design, so now we're building one--two actually, one for him and one for me.

Thank you for sharing your work in this thread. It's inspirational and practically helpful. We will follow along as you continue this project.

Here's a glimpse of my acoustic archtop guitar design. We just finished carving the first top. The neck blanks are glued up. Ready to bend sides. You are ahead of us, so keep it up. We'll be right behind you.

[JohnW400]

I'm sure we's all like to see more builders posting here. Maybe you guy's could post threads about the building process or woods or things like fretboard radius , frets types and sizes etc.

We'd all enjoy learning something about the "why" things are the way they are on a guitar

[wwwilkie]

KenBennett- Nice design, maybe you could post some photos when they're done?
I started working for Bob just after your visit and was there working as his apprentice until August '09. A truly great experience.

JohnW400- I think that's a good idea, maybe there should be a separate catagory for building? When I started this thread I wasn't sure where I should put it.

I'll be moving shop in a few weeks but will still try to post regularly.

[wwwilkie]

The headstock veneers on this particular guitar are rather complicated. I've chosen a thick ebony veneer for the face and Steve wanted a 4-ply veneer set on the back for which I used 2 thin ebony, 1 thin maple and an outside thick maple veneer to match the rest of the guitar. Later we'll see how this gets blended into the neck when it is carved.
In photo 3 we have ebony fingerboards at various stages of construction. First is the unslotted piece, next to that is one slotted for a 25" scale length, followed by a template for routing it to shape keeping in mind it will be bound with ebony mainly to hide the fret-ends.
Photo 4 is the bound fretboard which is slightly oversized.
In the last photo the fretboard is being glued to the neck using guide-pins to keep it in place, and a special clampling caul to apply even pressure while clamping.
Next I will add inlay to the headstock face, install frets and carve the neck.

[DaveS]

Great stuff Wyatt.... classy head veneers for great look without binding. How thick is the face veneer BTW?
The fingerboard radius looks "machined"... what do you use, if you don't mind me asking?
I assume you bind the fingerboard (with CA?) after glueing to the neck.

[wwwilkie]

Thanks Dave, the thickness of the ebony veneer I believe is .120", for the back I used 3@ .020" with the outer maple being .060 for a total of .120". The headstock has a slight taper to it of approximately 3/32".
I don't use a machine to radius the fingerboards, I run them through the thickness sander in a fixture that keeps them at a slight angle, then go over them with a radiused sanding block when they're attached to the neck. I've had lots of different methods for this over the years including grinding planer blades to a 12" radius (it seemed like a good idea) but came to the realization that it really doesn't take very long to sand it in, considering I don't build any more than 12 or 15 instruments in a year.
I use CA glue for the binding but glue binding to fingerboard before it is attached to the neck. I've done it both ways but settled on this method probably more than any other reason because I like to have the side dots inlaid before it's on the neck, and I prefer to use the drill press for this.

[DaveS]

Thanks Wyatt. I have about 1/16" taper, volute to tip. I like to maintain .600"max. at the low E to accomodate posts on most tuners. But I also like the look you achieve with thicker veneers....might thin a head core a bit more & give it a try.<g>
FWIW, I sand my radius as well .... thought I saw machine marks in the 3rd pic. I normally bind after glueup, but yeah, the dots can be a pain.
cheers

[wwwilkie]

Having attached the fingerboard it is given a 12" radius, abalone side markers are inlaid and the frets are pressed in.
Holes are drilled to accommodate the tuning posts and bushings. I'll be using Schertler tuners on this guitar.
Photo 3 shows the neck ready to carve and attach to the body. This is starting to look like a guitar.

[SamBooka]

looking good.
Why we cant see the fret tangs at the edge of the fingerboard?