What not to do on a gig

[AllanAllen]

In one of Jimmy Bruno’s recent videos, he’s Jonesing for gig work. And I think he’s in Philly.

That told me a lot about my place in the universe. As if I didn’t already know.

He has retired from gigging, but needs money so he's going back out there. That's way different than can't find a gig.

[AllanAllen]

Youve totally missed the point.

i don’t want information.

i want an opportunity to complain.

I was expecting complaints. Complaints are the to don't list.

[Kirk Garrett]

He has retired from gigging, but needs money so he's going back out there. That's way different than can't find a gig.

But he’s saying he’s having trouble finding gigs. He said it plainly.

[pamosmusic]

But he’s saying he’s having trouble finding gigs. He said it plainly.

This is more a statement on the “small world everyone knows you” nature of even the biggest jazz scenes, rather than the overall availability of gigs.

[pamosmusic]

I was expecting complaints. Complaints are the to don't list.

Whew

[Kirk Garrett]

This is more a statement on the “small world everyone knows you” nature of even the biggest jazz scenes, rather than the overall availability of gigs.

I don’t follow what this means. I do see that Jimmy says he needs money. But at least seems super duper happy and stuff.


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[ragman1]

What not to do on a gig

Arriving sober isn't a bad start...

[mr. beaumont]

What not to do on a gig

Arriving sober isn't a bad start...

Arriving on time (which means early) and sober, 80% of success.

Amazing how many people fuck this up.

[AllanAllen]

IBut at least seems super duper happy and stuff.

Are we talking about the same Jimmy Bruno? Oscar the Grouch is basically Santa Claus next to Jimmy Bruno.

[mr. beaumont]

Jimmy recently lost his wife. There's probably both monetary and "try to get back to some sense of normalcy" behind his motivation for getting back out there.

[JazzIsGood]

We would all be happy to see Jimmy out there gigging, but if he needs cash pronto he should be teaching lessons via zoom.

[olejason]

• Show up on time, that means be early
• Communicate. If a bandleader sends a group text with info about the gig drop them a thumbs up. Don't leave people wondering whether or not you'll show up.
• Bring reliable gear. If your gear isn't reliable, have a backup in the car.
• Don't be a drag and check the ego at the door. The band is a team there to do a job together.
• Play appropriately. If we're playing a dinner gig no one wants to hear a 10 minute 'outside' exploration in the middle of Out Of Nowhere.
• To go along with the previous, call tunes appropriate to the gig. 'Weird stuff' is fine for some gigs but not others.
• If you're the bandleader don't negotiate an extended set time with the venue on the spot without discussing with the band.
• Be respectful of client/venue rules. If they say no free food/drinks then that's that. Deal with it.
• If you're the bandleader make sure pay is squared away in a timely manner.
• If you're the bandleader and taking a bigger cut that's fine but be transparent about it. Don't be shady.

[AllanAllen]

• Show up on time, that means be early
• Communicate. If a bandleader sends a group text with info about the gig drop them a thumbs up. Don't leave people wondering whether or not you'll show up.
• Bring reliable gear. If your gear isn't reliable, have a backup in the car.
• Don't be a drag and check the ego at the door. The band is a team there to do a job together.
• Play appropriately. If we're playing a dinner gig no one wants to hear a 10 minute 'outside' exploration in the middle of Out Of Nowhere.
• To go along with the previous, call tunes appropriate to the gig. 'Weird stuff' is fine for some gigs but not others.
• If you're the bandleader don't negotiate an extended set time with the venue on the spot without discussing with the band.
• Be respectful of client/venue rules. If they say no free food/drinks then that's that. Deal with it.
• If you're the bandleader make sure pay is squared away in a timely manner.
• If you're the bandleader and taking a bigger cut that's fine but be transparent about it. Don't be shady.

I agree with most of this, but pay shouldn't be transparent, especially if someone is taking a bigger cut. It'll only breed resentment. I don't take a bigger cut because some nights we are splitting $300 four ways. But I get why someone else would.

It's a lot of work getting gigs, websites cost money, a PA costs money...

[Kirk Garrett]

Are we talking about the same Jimmy Bruno? Oscar the Grouch is basically Santa Claus next to Jimmy Bruno.

Correct!

[Hep To The Jive]

Question to bandleaders, do you send any song list in advance? When I was in NYC many jazz gigs had not, and would require you to show up and play whatever the leader fancied at the moment (usually the singer). And you're supposed to know the tunes they know, or if you don't you can use the charts but you will be vibed by the other guys in the band... I hated it tbh, I'm gald I don't have to deal with it anymore, but how common is that?

[AllanAllen]

Question to bandleaders, do you send any song list in advance? When I was in NYC many jazz gigs had not, and would require you to show up and play whatever the leader fancied at the moment (usually the singer). And you're supposed to know the tunes they know, or if you don't you can use the charts but you will be vibed by the other guys in the band... I hated it tbh, I'm gald I don't have to deal with it anymore, but how common is that?

I've done blues gigs where they guy plays his arrangements and the bass player helped me along.

For my own gigs, I have set lists worked out. I'm green to some level, so I have setlists with the key and what Real Book the tune is in. If it's not in a real book (I'm talking Hal Leonard Real Books here) I have my own chart written for it that I can share in C or Bb. I try not to call things I don't know, but if the bass player says he wants to play All The Things You Are, I'll add it to the list and if I need a sheet, so be it.

But, I'm not in NYC.... I'm not in any city.

[rpjazzguitar]

Question to bandleaders, do you send any song list in advance? When I was in NYC many jazz gigs had not, and would require you to show up and play whatever the leader fancied at the moment (usually the singer). And you're supposed to know the tunes they know, or if you don't you can use the charts but you will be vibed by the other guys in the band... I hated it tbh, I'm gald I don't have to deal with it anymore, but how common is that?

I don't lead standards gigs, but I play them occasionally. I can't think of one where there was a song list (of standards) sent out in advance. There is usually a comment about whether or not there will be a book or a reminder to bring a real book. If I were known as a player who knows hundreds of jazz tunes and can play them instantly in any key, maybe I wouldn't even get that much info. I've done some higher end standard gigs and there was always a book, even for tunes a jazz player would be expected to know. Needless to say, I'm nowhere near NYC.

For the stuff I do, the set list is non-standards and there are written arrangements of just about everything. We could play them without rehearsal picking tunes on the fly. But, the books are still paper and unwieldy. And, we play them better when everybody has practiced or at least looked over the tunes just before the gig. The group likes doing a lot of different tunes - there's no way we could memorize all the arrangements.

There is also the issue of making sure everybody has the same exact chart, since some of these arrangements have evolved over time. So, I send out a tune list and pdfs of the set list. Then I bring multiple copies of a few easy tunes in case we need more.

We could do a gig without charts. But, nobody is enthused about playing the same 50 (or whatever number) tunes which every band member is certain to know. If we were just trying to make a living playing standard gigs it would be different, but without grown-up money, people want to play the music they want to play.

[olejason]

I agree with most of this, but pay shouldn't be transparent, especially if someone is taking a bigger cut. It'll only breed resentment. I don't take a bigger cut because some nights we are splitting $300 four ways. But I get why someone else would.

It's a lot of work getting gigs, websites cost money, a PA costs money...

Yeah that's fair, I just prefer the bandleader to be upfront about it which, again, is totally fine with me if they take a bigger cut. You never know when the client is going to walk up at the end of the night and hand over the check to the first musician they see. If the amount doesn't line up with an even split, and it hasn't been discussed prior, that situation can lead to some resentment whether justified or not.

I have no problem with the person hustling for gigs taking a bigger cut, in most cases they should if you ask me.

[olejason]

Question to bandleaders, do you send any song list in advance? When I was in NYC many jazz gigs had not, and would require you to show up and play whatever the leader fancied at the moment (usually the singer). And you're supposed to know the tunes they know, or if you don't you can use the charts but you will be vibed by the other guys in the band... I hated it tbh, I'm gald I don't have to deal with it anymore, but how common is that?

That's mostly a NYC thing from what I've seen. Everyone should build their repertoire and be able to play many tunes from memory (you'll play better if you don't need a chart) but it's not realistic in most areas to expect every musician on a gig to know hundreds and hundreds of the same tunes from memory. I'd also add that having people on gigs who can read charts, and read them very well, can be invaluable.

[pamosmusic]

Question to bandleaders, do you send any song list in advance? When I was in NYC many jazz gigs had not, and would require you to show up and play whatever the leader fancied at the moment (usually the singer). And you're supposed to know the tunes they know, or if you don't you can use the charts but you will be vibed by the other guys in the band... I hated it tbh, I'm gald I don't have to deal with it anymore, but how common is that?

I loved it when I was there. The thing I noticed in circles I was playing in was that you’d absolutely be vibed if you brought out a book, but you wouldn’t be vibed at all for saying “I don’t know that one.” Within reason, of course. So generally it was three or four people playing a tune they all actually knew at the same time. Which is rare.

I played with a handful of guys a lot, so this is not something I’d do if I didn’t know people, but when I played at Bar Next Door (RIP) I wouldn’t have a set list … and wouldn’t stop between songs to call the next one. Someone would just segue from one to the next.

[JazzIsGood]

This thing where players know 500+ tunes in every key is going away. An older experienced musician was explaining this to me. He said people over age 60 grew up with these songs, so the jump from "knowing what it sounds like" to "knowing how to play it" is very easy. People who did not grow up hearing "I Wish I Knew" on the radio or in the drug store will never have it that easy. They have to start from zero, so it's not gonna happen for them unless they happen to be blessed with a photographic memory. People's ability to remember songs and chords really does vary.

It's shifting to iRealPro. Where I live people mostly use iRealPro. It's working out well I would say.

That being said, NY is the cream of the crop. These are people who have been immersed in jazz music from a young age and they tend to have tremendous cognitive abilities as well. So I'd assume it will continue there. When in NY people think you are garbage player if you don't know 500+ songs in every key.

Also, to answer the question more directly, I always give people a list of tunes about a week in advance. I also tell them there's some wiggle room and they are welcome to call a few tunes if they would like to. Even the high level people who know every tune appreciate having a list in advance. It can't hurt, it can only make people more comfortable which makes the music better.

[AllanAllen]

Don't forget playing opportunities have dried up. Drummer in my band is in his 60s. He used to play hotel gigs 4 times a week in Chicago. There are zero gigs like that now. Hotel will just play sirius 40s on 4 or nothing at all.

You can learn 500 songs a lot faster if you're playing multiple 4 hour gigs a week as opposed to playing 1 gig a month.

[pamosmusic]

That being said, NY is the cream of the crop. These are people who have been immersed in jazz music from a young age and they tend to have tremendous cognitive abilities as well. So I'd assume it will continue there. When in NY people think you are garbage player if you don't know 500+ songs in every key.

Lol. Nah.

I knew about 150 at my tops and got around just fine. Got vibed hard once or twice for not knowing something off the beaten path, but not really something I dealt with often.

And most musicians in New York are transplants. So that bit about being immersed in the music from a young age has nothing to do with New York. It just means that got into it when they were in high school or whatever and listen a lot.

[AllanAllen]

All the artists in New York are from Ohio.

[mr. beaumont]

A good time for me to chime in with my favorite quote: "I've forgotten more tunes than I know."