Do you call the tunes at jam sessions or gigs?

[AllanAllen]

Yes, my peers mocked me and called me “rainman” and that I had autism. The faculty were good people, the other students in the music school were less than desirable people.

Thats terrible. Sorry it happened to you man.

[Stringswinger]

Yes, my peers mocked me and called me “rainman” and that I had autism. The faculty were good people, the other students in the music school were less than desirable people.

You are not autistic, but you might have been the only one with pro level jazz musician chops in the room. Find better peers.

[orri]

I've mostly been to jams where a large portion of the people rely heavily on ireal or fakebooks, so calling songs people don't know is usually fine as long as it is available in ireal/fakebooks.

But I feel you need to read the room to know which songs to call in which situation.

There are roughly two factors to consider:
1. How easy is it to play the song for the first time from a fakebook/ireal for someone who is less familiar with it? Which result could I expect in this current group situation?
2. How common is it to be familiar with the song?

But sometimes, you don't really know, and in that case you can just try to call it and see how it turns out. You can also simply ask if people are familiar with a song and then call something else if their reactions seem less comfortable/confident (you need to read into their non verbal reactions too).

[drbhrb]

Big band charts routinely include solo sections. At that point, it's a small group, at least until the horn backgrounds start, if there are any.

And, interacting with each other is important in this context, despite the fact that there are charts.

still, that’s a band that knows each other and has rehearsed, and everyone knows the tune. I’d still say charts are a barrier to good music between strangers at a jam session.

[AllanAllen]

still, that’s a band that knows each other and has rehearsed, and everyone knows the tune. I’d still say charts are a barrier to good music between strangers at a jam session.

Depends on how well they know the song. Charts are a fantastic tool until they become a crutch.

[JGinNJ]

I have issues with the way open jams are traditionally run, though I see it changing it's not really better.

To answer the question, in my narrow experience, when it's "your turn' to play I can call a tune, but if it's at a session where people generally don't use books, it's more of a question of "How about/do you know?". So once again we're playing All Blues, Autumn Leaves, All the Things you Are...for the "A's"

More and more, though, I see people going to Real Books and tablets. That's not the way I learned. Recently I posed the question, "what's up with that?" on another forum, and I drew a lot of flak. I always try to memorize tunes, and I wouldn't call a tune I needed a book for.

But if I'm only going to get to play a couple of tunes in a long afternoon or evening, and the books are out, I'll look over somebody's shoulder and say, sure, let's play that.

[RLetson]

I find the hostility toward charts at a jam a bit strange. Is a jam not in part an informal social occasion? Of course, any social occasion will have conventions and expectations set by the participants, but rigid sets of oughts and shoulds and musts strike me as perhaps designed to establish in- and out-group membership. And I understand that a bunch of players at X level of competence might want to discourage participation by players at X-n level.

Nevertheless. Our local jazz group consists entirely of academically-trained players who have been together for quite a few years and who have a decent repertory of pretty standard material for which they have established head arrangements. And they all (except the drummer) keep paper or iReal charts out for reference--though to be sure, for many tunes they don't really need them. Nevertheless, the charts are available. And the audience will sometimes ask for a tune that they have never played together, at which point they happily find the right chart and get through it.

I suppose this group qualifies as semi-pro, since they all have non-musical day jobs (except the drummer, who is about to retire from the local university's music department), and there is something of the jam-session vibe to their weekly gigs--other players sometimes drop in for a tune or two, and I have been tolerated as surplus-to-requirements rhythm guitarist for several years.

Maybe my country-mouse musical experience is radically different from the kind of jam session under discussion here--or maybe it's the difference between a friendly and a serious poker game.

[mr. beaumont]

Every jam has it's own vibe.

For me, my job in any playing situation is always to make the group sound good. If I'm looking at a chart for a tune I really don't know, I'm probably not doing my job.

If it's to glance at a chart to remember the bridge of a tune I've played a hundred times but not in a long time, then I can probably do my job just fine.

[rpjazzguitar]

From another perspective:

I'm going to leave out of this post those players who hate the idea of charts at a jam, and who know hundreds of tunes and are happy just playing those. If they exist.

Most players want to learn new music and, in my limited experience, are happy to read new tunes at a jam.

In fact, I have found that a key to getting better players to play for free (at a jam or for cheap at a gig) is to make sure that some of the music is challenging, by which I mean, they feel (and often say in a fully friendly way) their asses got kicked - which is a compliment to the jam.

I think I'm more likely to encounter the no-charts attitude in a jam where the idea is to eliminate players who don't know, say, the top 20 jam tunes. That is, they don't want to play with someone who needs a chart for Blue Bossa, no matter how well that player might play it. Or, maybe, in a jam with multiple horns, they don't want a player who can't figure out the harmony by ear after hearing the head and multiple choruses of solos by others.

But, at a higher end jam, good players aren't going to show up next time if you make them play Blue Bossa this time.

But, if you call something more advanced and provide charts -- and are willing to take a minute to sort it out (making it part workshop and part jam), good players will be attracted to that, IME.

There's one jam I've been to twice. At a big restaurant and run by a guy with a Grammy. This is the one where the organist is kicking bass -- and he has IRealPro. The leader, a horn player, seems to know a lot of tunes. There are no music stands and I don't know what would happen if you brought one. I'm guessing he'd think, don't play a tune you don't know -- but give the organist a pass. They end up playing the top 50 jazz jam tunes unless all the sitters-in happen to know something more advanced. I recall, for example, a group of them playing a nice version of Evidence.

My guess is that you can't call a tune the leader doesn't know -- he'll just say pick something else. And I know that he won't let you call a tune that he doesn't think the horn players will know, and sometimes they were younger players. He turned down I Should Care when I called it.

My guess is that the leader reads very well, but in a jam situation where the leader isn't a good reader -- he's not going to want charts.

One last point. The reason I went to that jam only twice was that it really wasn't that much fun. I'd have to wait around to get called. Then I'd have to rush to get my gear set up (pedal board and guitar, using somebody's amp), tune quickly, call a tune. It would start out loud and never come down in volume. Feel would generally be invariant, start to finish. No indication anybody was listening to each other. I'd try to start a solo quietly and be completely drowned out. Nobody was acknowledging good play. At other jams when you play a good solo, you'll get a nod, or a player will tap his thigh to show applause, or something. But this jam wasn't like that. Too impersonal. A little clique-y (which is understandable when you have a bunch of people who know each other in a larger context). So, I stopped going. And, one other thing -- I like to have a chart in front of me -- I'm comfortable reading and I'm prone to occasional brain freezes. I'm more relaxed with a chart.

[JazzIsGood]

I hereby declare all jams and gigs should allow people to have charts or no charts, as an individual choice.

This charts/no charts thing is the dumbest debate and it's turning people off to jazz. The artform is dying anyway, let's not drive new people away with this kind of "who is the biggest nerd" contest.

Some people have a better memory than others. It doesn't mean you're a bad player if you're not great at memorizing tunes. Some people have a better ear, some have better memory, some people have great swing feel, and some don't.

"No charts" is code for "no beginners allowed" so if you don't want beginners at your jam session, have the guts to tell people that.

[AllanAllen]

I ended up thinking, "If you're the guy who says no charts, then you shouldn't call any tunes. Let's see how you do when somebody else calls them".

I agree even more with the extra context you just provided above.

[pamosmusic]

I think I'm more likely to encounter the no-charts attitude in a jam where the idea is to eliminate players who don't know, say, the top 20 jam tunes. That is, they don't want to play with someone who needs a chart for Blue Bossa, no matter how well that player might play it. Or, maybe, in a jam with multiple horns, they don't want a player who can't figure out the harmony by ear after hearing the head and multiple choruses of solos by others.

But, at a higher end jam, good players aren't going to show up next time if you make them play Blue Bossa this time.

But, if you call something more advanced and provide charts -- and are willing to take a minute to sort it out (making it part workshop and part jam), good players will be attracted to that, IME.

For sure not my experience of sessions like this.

I hate using charts at a jam sessions. I don't care either way if someone reads it, but I do want them to know it, more or less. So if someone calls a tune and the person says "I don't know it, but I could read it," that's a pass for me. If someone says "sure" and then looks it up in iReal, I don't particularly care. If someone calls a tune and I don't have it memorized, I say I don't know it. Exceptions being if it's a beginner or a singer.

Anyway ... the reason for this ... I would much much much much rather play a tune that everyone knows than have half the group stumble over a hipper tune.

Honestly I wouldn't mind if the whole jam was blueses, Another You, Blue Bossa, and whatever else, so long as everyone felt comfortable playing and listening.

I've been to tons of sessions where I saw zero charts ever. Some of them were cutting rooms and I don't care for those ... most were places where the leader explicitly wanted people playing songs they knew so they could be playing with other people.

I'll tell you what gets me to not like a jam session ... showing up and someone is there with a song they've obviously been planning for, they come up and treat it like an open mic where you're part of the backing band for their feature, they call their tune and its Missouri Uncompromised or some such nonsense, I say "I don't know that one," and they say "well fine then what do you want to play."

In my experience ... the books at sessions are mostly neutral to good, but often encourage a sort of thing where people don't feel the need to come up with a song everyone will know. "I'll call what I want, because everyone else can just read it."

Lame.

[drbhrb]

I hereby declare all jams and gigs should allow people to have charts or no charts, as an individual choice.

This charts/no charts thing is the dumbest debate and it's turning people off to jazz. The artform is dying anyway, let's not drive new people away with this kind of "who is the biggest nerd" contest.

Some people have a better memory than others. It doesn't mean you're a bad player if you're not great at memorizing tunes. Some people have a better ear, some have better memory, some people have great swing feel, and some don't.

"No charts" is code for "no beginners allowed" so if you don't want beginners at your jam session, have the guts to tell people that.

pamosmusic above said it better than I - it's not no charts = no beginners allowed. It's no charts = please just call a tune everyone knows so we can all be successful playing together.

[rpjazzguitar]

For sure not my experience of sessions like this. a song everyone will know. "I'll call what I want, because everyone else can just read it."

Lame.

Experiences differ, apparently quite a bit!

The idea that one player doesn't care about the feelings of the others is lame. But, IME (which is mostly with private jams, not open jams) calling an unfamiliar tune isn't usually viewed that way. Rather, others see an opportunity to learn something new and tend to be enthused about it.

That can change if somebody brings in an original, particularly if the chart is amateurish.

In the jams I'm thinking about, I don't think anybody ever called Blue Bossa or Autumn Leaves, or All of Me. And, the players who wanted to participate understood the kind of jam it was -- meaning new charts are welcome.

Maybe open jams would be different. I have a lot less experience with them. I can't recall somebody bringing in a bunch of copies of an unfamiliar tune (to me anyway) and handing them out. That has happened often at my private jams, which is how I became passingly familiar with a lot of tunes.

[pamosmusic]

But, IME (which is mostly with private jams, not open jams)

Ahhhhhhh see this is a totally different thing though.

[Christian Miller]

I used to work at a jazz club where the Mingus Big Band played Mondays. They always had charts but my understanding is that almost none of them were complete after thirty years of rips and tears and lost pages.

I heard a story about someone subbing on Cats in London and no one knew what had happened to the charts. I think they had been fossilised at that point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pamosmusic]

I heard a story about someone subbing on Cats in London and no one knew what had happened to the charts. I think they had been fossilised at that point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh that was me. Except it was a nightmare I had once.

[JazzerEU]

You are not autistic, but you might have been the only one with pro level jazz musician chops in the room. Find better peers.

I graduated and left that university behind. I got a bachelor’s degree on scholarship which is good, but I won’t be ever donating to the university any time soon.

[rpjazzguitar]

For those frustrated with jams, I have a recommendation.

1. Find a bassist and start meeting.

2. Sooner or later, a drummer will turn up, or you can advertise.
Better if you have a practice room with instruments and amps. Makes it harder for the drummer and kb player (if any) to say no.

3. Horn players and non-pro singers will find you. They all crave backup.

4. Make multiple copies of a book, or do it with tablets. Pick tunes you like to play (and can play) and be sure to have a range of difficulty. You need to be able to kick anybody's ass with a few of them. And some should be easy. I'd suggest having some odd meter tunes (7 and 5) and some 3/4 that aren't waltzes. Different grooves. Swing, various Latin, funk, whatever.

5. Meet weekly at a time when most people don't have gigs. Mornings, early afternoons, weekday and Sunday evenings (not Friday eve).

6. Treat the musicians like treasured guests. Feed them if you can.

I can attest that this works.

[pamosmusic]

For those frustrated with jams, I have a recommendation.

1. Find a bassist and start meeting.

2. Sooner or later, a drummer will turn up, or you can advertise.
Better if you have a practice room with instruments and amps. Makes it harder for the drummer and kb player (if any) to say no.

3. Horn players and non-pro singers will find you. They all crave backup.

4. Make multiple copies of a book, or do it with tablets. Pick tunes you like to play (and can play) and be sure to have a range of difficulty. You need to be able to kick anybody's ass with a few of them. And some should be easy. I'd suggest having some odd meter tunes (7 and 5) and some 3/4 that aren't waltzes. Different grooves. Swing, various Latin, funk, whatever.

5. Meet weekly at a time when most people don't have gigs. Mornings, early afternoons, weekday and Sunday evenings (not Friday eve).

6. Treat the musicians like treasured guests. Feed them if you can.

I can attest that this works.

I mean … this is very different than just a jam session BUT it is by far the most enjoyable way to play music.

We usually referred to these as “reading sessions” but also we usually used them for reading original tunes and stuff.

Thats the ticket.

[mr. beaumont]

I think of I was at a jam and somebody showed up and handed me a chart, I'd probably sit that tune out.

Now the "workshop" environment, that sounds fun.

[AllanAllen]

I'd suggest having some odd meter tunes (7 and 5) and some 3/4 that aren't waltzes. Different grooves. Swing, various Latin, funk, whatever.

Any tune suggestions?

[rpjazzguitar]

Any tune suggestions?

I'll leave the top 50 jam tunes out of this post.

Some that come to mind with the aid of a list.

Along Came Betty
Ana Maria
Beatrice
Better Days Ahead
Gregory is Here
Killer Joe
Morning
Mountain Flight
Mr. Magic
Samba De Orfeo
St. Thomas
Sugar

Those cover a lot of grooves.

For odd meters, I know mostly Brazilian tunes (and Take Five -- everybody likes Blue Rondo, but I've never heard it called).

Cravo e Canela (3/4 but not a waltz)
Tema Em Tres (ditto)
Mixing (aka Misturada) (7/4)

Some smooth jazz:
Bali Run
Something by Steely Dan like Aja or Deacon Blues
Last Train Home

[AllanAllen]

Thanks, I mainly meant the odd meter ones, but I appreciate a full list.

[rpjazzguitar]

Thanks, I mainly meant the odd meter ones, but I appreciate a full list.

Sorry to be limited to Brazilian artists' tunes, but here's what I've got. They should all be available on youtube and charts may be floating around. Some may be in the Latin Real Book.

7/4
Tombo in 7/4 (Airto Moreira)
Buritizais (Chico Pinheiro)
Misturada (Airto) aka Mixing
Musica Das Nuvens Do Chao (Hermeto Pascoal)
Tacho (this one is fairly easy) (also Hermeto)

5/4
Estrella De Mar (Jovino Santos Neto)
No Balanco de Jequibau (Mario Albanese)
Tempestade (Chico Pinheiro)

3/4

Cravo E Canela (Milton Nascimiento)
Paraty (Nilson Matta)
Tema Em Tres (Chico Pinheiro)