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I go to jam sessions usually once a month, usually in any week I don't have a gig. I became a leader of a jam session, sort of by accident, but I have been embracing the role. The quality of players at the session I lead is quite variable. Some beginners, some decent, some pretty good like almost good enough that I would have them on a real gig.
The thing that bugs me most is when the music sounds bad. I know jams are just for learning, but I don't want to listen to 2 hours of bad music.
The biggest problem I see that ruins a jam session is the comping. Too many people comp at once, the chords get muddy, people start turning up their volume and comping even more. It's a real nightmare and I have tried to get this toned down a bit by asking people to not comp if someone else is coming, but people always want to play. They want to get some practice. They don't even know or care how bad the overall product is. Maybe they think they're supposed to be playing the whole time?
Now I've started to do a whole speech at the beginning of every session where I tell people that on real jazz records, there's bass, there's drums, there's a melody or soloist, and then sometimes there's chords. They don't always have chords, but when they do it's 3-6 notes TOTAL, which includes piano and guitar. Honestly 6 is pushing it but acceptable at a jam session. So if you're comping, listen to whoever else is comping, and if you're playing more than 6 total notes, stop playing immediately as soon as you realize it. You will spend at least 50% of your time in this jam session laying out. There's no shame in laying out, it's the proudest thing a jazz musician can do!
I gotta tell you the jam sounded quite good once we got going. Not only was the chord mud solved, but also people started listening carefully to the overall song and trying to figure out how many notes were in the comp chords and if it was too many. They were actually being mindful of the song instead of just trying to get their instrument noise into the mix any way they could. People were watching their volume and listening closely to the soloist. It was a huge improvement.
Can we popularize this rule? It would make the world a better place.
Am I correct on the 3-6 notes thing? Any other opinions on this? Can anyone expand on this? The main exception I've heard is when people are playing unison accents with piano, guitar, and drums. Then it seems to work to have more notes. It's fun once in a while but it's not something you'd hear in every single song.
Don't overcomp is a rule everyone should already know.... but people don't know it. No one tells the beginners. It's up to the session leader I think.
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07-16-2023 04:16 PM
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I assume these jams have multiple guitar players (since it would be difficult to have multiple pianist).
When that is the case, we rotate who does the comping, just like we do with the solos. The players that will do the comping rotate only comping for the duration of each person's solo. Of course the order starts with #1 in the rotation playing the chords for the melody, then #2 comps etc..
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Don’t they all?
Originally Posted by jameslovestal
Just kidding.
sort of.
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I like the Mulligan/Baker style of comping, half notes or whole notes outlining the chords that nobody is playing. But when I try it people look at me like I'm crazy.
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Yeah I’m more a fan of one person comping at a time as a rule. Unless it’s a swing tune where it would appropriate for a guitarist to play quarter notes, but it’s better to just not provide a list of exceptions
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The best 'rule I've run across for streamlining jam sessions was Jeff Newell's way of featuring a vocalist. He'd have them pick 3 tunes, the middle one a ballad, and treat it as a mini-set. Maybe one or two soloists on the swing/latin numbers, no soloists on the ballad. If you've ever listened to 5 tenor players take 5 choruses each on "Nobody Else But Me" while the singer stands around (or worse yet, grabs some hand percussion) for a half an hour waiting to sing the head out, you'd appreciate his method....
PK
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I prefer one person comping at a time for a typical jam session and that they stay out of the range of the bass player (about one octave below middle C).
Your 6-note rule is hard to manage, how does one keep count throughout a tune?
Your 3-6 note rule is often broken by bands. But, when it is done right it's by musicians who know how to play together. In this video, way more than 6 notes at a time, but also a lot of space. I picked it because there are 3 guitarists and 5 keyboard players.
Last edited by fep; 07-17-2023 at 01:49 PM.
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But if there is a pianist, how is one going to get them not to comp? Originally Posted by drbhrb
Yea, they would agree with the one person comping at a time 'rule', as long as it has them being the only one comping.
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Ha, invite more agreeable piano players I suppose Originally Posted by jameslovestal
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Why fight the pianist? Just let them comp, jazz is piano and saxophone music. We are just guests.
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I have had no luck trying to get just one person to comp at a time. I agree it's the best way. I just can't get people to agree to it. Taking turns comping with all these guitar players would be a dream, again I can't get people to stop playing. People want to play and get some practice in. The newbies have been respectful and not comping much. It's the good (not great) guitar players who know a lot of chords that are a mess, they want to use all them chords they've been learning.
Yes there's a lot of guitar players. It's always at least 3. This is really the problem. Another problem is that I get piano players that are new to jazz. They play vanilla 1-3-5-7 7th chords with no 9th or 13th, they play big giant chords with no space, they play all kinds of wack ass stuff. The rule of only 3-6 notes has taken care of both problems.
If I can get it down to 1 guitar player + piano, with less than 6 total notes I consider that a win.
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Yeah If i had Snarky Puppy guys at my jam I would not say one thing, let them run amuck and play whatever they want.
I've been listening to classic jazz records from the 50s and 60s with improvised solos, that's where I'm getting the idea of only 3-6 notes.
Originally Posted by fep
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This thread is really boosting my confidence in what I played at the jams I’ve been to.
It wasn’t much comping, just stay out of the way.
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Don't allow multiple guitarists on stage? That's what they do at the smalls jam. Just have 1 guitarist at a time.
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Thanks @JazzIsGood for starting this thread and to everyone for sharing your thoughts and ideas. I’m especially interested in learning about jam session procedures, repertoire, etiquette and such matters.
I began participating in jazz jam sessions in Japan about five or six years ago. The tenor saxophonist friend who invited me to my first session explained basic session etiquette. After participating for a few weeks, the bass player, a semi-pro who played a 5-string, called me aside and politely said not to play the root and to avoid the lower registers. So I studied Jim Hall’s comping and learned how to use shell voicings.
At another jam session some time later, pro musicians including a bassist showed up. They were in town for a gig and stopped by to visit friends. When one of the participants was taking a bass solo, the pro bassist stood up and yelled out “GUITARS!” Two guitarists were comping, not even quietly, along with the pianist.
Although these were two different styles of informing, in both cases important lessons were learned.
I’m intrigued by the 3-6 note comping rule proposed here and happy to hear it improved the session. I’d like to share a few thoughts, if I may. I’m not sure of the context of the session but to me that might matter.
I regularly participate in jazz jam sessions held at three local venues. These are small Mom and Pop shops that feature concerts, workshops and other events. They also host weekly, bimonthly or monthly jazz jam sessions. Sometimes Mom or Pop play, but only if their instruments are not covered. In one venue there’s something like a house band that lightly manages the session, but they also rotate with the participants. The atmosphere is friendly and although the participants include pros, semi-pros and amateurs (like me), beginners are also welcomed.
There’s another venue that hosts a session in which the leader, a pianist, invites participants up one at a time to play with his trio and then critiques their playing. To me, that feels more like an audition or a recital and it makes an already stressful situation for amateurs and beginners more stressful.
There’s little or no audience for these jam sessions, other than the musicians who came to play or sing on any given day or night. On occasion, participants will bring friends, work colleagues, their students or a significant other, but it’s mostly local musicians. Once or twice a year, jam session alumni who have gone on to be pro musicians show up. But by and large those who come to these jam sessions want to play, they want to have fun with other musicians, and they want to perhaps learn something (or help others learn something). These are not high stakes jam sessions, but they are nevertheless enjoyable experiences.
I do agree that multiple people comping is cumbersome, but in some contexts it’s perhaps reasonable and even understandable. I imagine it would be a different story, however, if there was an audience paying to see a house band that invites up musicians who signed in. I’ve been to those kinds of sessions, too, mostly in the larger highly populated cities (e.g. Tokyo), but where I live and play it’s more like a community. If there are multiple guitars comping, or a very busy pianist, I turn my volume off but still play along. It’s a fun opportunity to learn and practice in situ, which is a reason I go to jam sessions.
While the 3-6 note limit is an effective strategy, and I’d like to try it out at the next session, it’s perhaps not practical in every kind of jam session, and maybe even unnecessary in some. As my two anecdotes above suggest, there are opportunities to learn session etiquette while participating.
In any case, I suppose the question is, “Who are jam sessions for?” The way we answer that question can inform the way we evaluate and understand a session. If it’s a very casual setting to learn and to have fun playing jazz together, and something goes wrong (flubbing the head, over-comping, etc.), in my experience that attitude is, “No problem, it’s a session!” We might briefly discuss it, and then just move on to the next tune. If the beginners and newcomers are mindful and polite, they will learn their lessons, as did I in my first sessions. Meanwhile, along the way there are some magical moments as well as ordinary moments (and sometimes a few painful ones). All of these moments can coexist, as do the various musicians who participate in jam sessions.
Thanks for reading, and sorry if this became verbose. I’ll look forward to other viewpoints.
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The jam sessions might be for the players, but the goal should be to make music that sounds good. 3 guitarists practicing comping together does not sound good.
I used to use your trick of turning off the volume to strum along at the blues jams I would go to. Now I just stand there and listen like a sax player. It's very pleasant.
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I never comp off the bat. If no one else comes in, I let the horn player do his thing for 16 bars and then come in at the bridge or something. Most of the time everyone else plays chords til the cows come home and I just have an easy night like a horn player. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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I think your rule is an excellent one.
I don't care for multiple instruments comping unless they're expert at it.
I also don't like guitar and piano laying out for alternate choruses or solos. I always find the changeover to be jarring.
Your rule builds in listening -- and I'm guessing the less advanced players will be happy for the guidance. Well, more advanced players may appreciate it as well, especially when it clearly works.
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Who is it for is a good question.... I'd say in this case, it's for me because I refuse to listen to 2 hours of bad music. The over-comping is painful to listen to.
I had pretty good sounds with the 1 guitar at a time rule. But for some reason the 3-6 note rule creates more of those magic moments. Maybe it's because people are listening more.
This current jam is a backyard jam, the setup is round with all musicians in a circle. There's a bit of audience, not uch. I may ask the guy to change it over to stage + audience jam and then I can keep the guitar players at bay better and call them up one by one. But they still need to keep to 3-6 comp notes along with the piano.
When the piano+guitar comping is sparse enough and it hits just right it can really work well. ONE GUITAR, not two, not three.
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There's only seven notes... Even if you count the 9ths, 11ths, and 13ths.
How much unison can you stand with six players?
Throw the dice, pick a card... Decide who sits out.
More enjoyable to play and rest, have a coffee, than to play through the entire session.
Back when most jazz musicians were horn players, they could line up and take turns blowing. But too many guitars sounds bloody awful. Everyone banging on those barre chords. Just as too many pianists, bassists, or drummers would sound like John Cage. Back in the day, there was only one rhythm section, or none. Horn players just congregated and cut each other in the alley. You can have four horn parts/pads and many horn players are used to sitting out all or part of a tune. Get a few gitters in the room and we all enter the Twilight Zone. Like those big bands that use electric bass gitters to ruin all the big band era music.
Anytime one guitar player plays a dominant ninth, regardless of what chords the others are playing, ninths rule the moment. I shudder to think of what it sounds like when one guitar is playing F13 and another is playing the tritone sub B13 while another plays F#o7 and another is playing Cm6 to Am7-5! Cut their cords...! The whole jazz idea was set up for ONE guitar. Maybe NONE.
Yes, Charlie Christian played lines like a saxophone, but he was the only guitarist in the band. No one has any sense anymore, anyway, anyhow. Also, there was only ever one guitar comping chords in any big band. You only need one guitar at any given time. You don't need a "Lead Gitter" and a "Rhythm Gitter" in Jazz. It's not the Rolling Stones. One does it all. And a guitar is never in tune with itself, anyway, no matter what you do. More guitars just compound the cacaphony.
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We have a winner! Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
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If there's more than one harmonic instrument on stage, then the idea is, usually, to agree beforehand who is going to comp on who's solo (like: "I'm comping along the trumpet solo while you comp along the saxophone solo". Ok, all set!).
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P.S. If you are the only harmonic instrument on any given tune at a jam session, in my experience, horn players are not very pleased if you lay out too much... they do expect you to comp! Especially if they're students, they appreciate harmonic support...
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