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Getting your own means ‘never taking no from someone who can’t tell you yes.’
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01-29-2017 04:05 PM
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I can't speak for Clarke or Coltrane.
Originally Posted by AlsoRan
That said, Coltrane's music was obviously not always bubblegum and rainbows. To me, love and peace is not always about making life fluffy... it's about intention and vulnerability. I gave a lecture to some undergrad freshman in a jazz program recently about a lot of this type of stuff... life/death, ego, love, etc.
They were incredible and asked some amazingly deep and thought provoking questions. One of them was about how you know whether something is coming from a place of ego or a place of love and sharing. I told them I don't have all the answers and can't instruct them how to navigate through life... but I said that for me, a lot of it comes down to vulnerability. If I'm playing a certain way because I'm trying to get attention and want people to assume that I'm a bad@$$ and that playing this way or that will convince them... for me... that's ego. If I'm playing THE EXACT SAME STUFF but doing it from a place of vulnerability, a place of true desire to connect with someone, with letting down my guard, with being okay with not being accepted because I know I had my heart on my sleeve... that's genuine love and sharing. Even when the external actions appear the exact same, it's the underlying intention that I think matters more... for me.
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He needs to be 'kept'. Originally Posted by AlsoRan
Hey, there are some hot 70-year-olds out there. With MONEY...
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Heh! heh!
I have to chuckle at some of the comments. But my suspicions have been re-confirmed that he is going to have to hustle and get out there if he wants to sell his music.
To be fair, this fellow is just not a social personality. I have worked with mentally challenged adults and I almost think it could probably be something that can diagnosed. He is just does not really want to deal with people other than his inner circle of family and friends.
If you ever hang around children, you might be able to see this type of behavior at a young age. You know, the kid that never really wants to play with the other kids and is happy in his own world. He fills his time with his own interests and does not make much eye contact.
I have a soft spot in my heart for these types of children since some will be the same way as adults and will always have a hard time fitting in. One benefit of growing old is that I have learned to be understanding of their plight. It is not an easy one. "Tough love" works sometimes, while with others, it drives them further inward.
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Eddie Diehl is, for my money, one of the greatest ever, most swinging and inventive players. Beautiful touch, and the more he plays the more he hears. Perfect sense of self-editing, too, and a thrilling duo partner who listens and gooses you. A giant.
But NO ONE can take his personality. We were friends for 40 years. No more, and I don't want to get into it. Just to say he could have been as big a jazz guitar name as anyone, b/c he's as good as anyone (and knows it, too).
I think there are enough obstacles out there w/o getting in our own ways. I've done it myself in my own way, but (at well-nigh 63) MAY be on the verge of growing up. I know I DO want to be a success as player and songwriter (financially and in being at least famous enough to have my calls returned---LOL).
The obstacles: (I know I've beaten this into the ground here and elsewhere, but it IS the elephant in the room for all who want to sell CDs). Who's gonna spend $ when so much free music is available? When people can simply point, click and steal (yes, STEAL) on youtube especially. It's a major impedance to those of us trying to earn a living. Also, how does one stand out in the glut of available music even for sale?
I guess the answer is, at least in part: instead of trying to 'fight City Hall'---use the available modalities like iTunes, etc. People are too dumbed-down and in too much of a hurry (to do WHAT I'm sure I don't know) to listen to an entire CD, let alone buy one. So put up individual tracks in the hopes of getting perhaps a few bites on the whole thing.
There's also always live gigs to sell 'em at. I've unloaded a few at Cleopatra's Needle, and will be there this Thursday---keeping hope alive.
But I can't resist declaring my sadness re beautiful cover art, worthy liner notes---etc. being lost in the supposed ease of technological 'advances'. The good news: I've heard tell of an increasing interest in VINYL!!
You can't keep a good man (or woman) down. Not forever, anyway...
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This is not exactly correct. Originally Posted by fasstrack
- You have to be big enough and popular first place, in order for someone to copy and unlawfully publish your work of art. Chances are, nobody gives a ... for you and your work.
- If you are really big and famous, all the steals, covers and re-uploads are just a drop of water in the ocean, they don't harm, maybe even help.
- If you and your work (music) are known enough, searches will lead to your page, not to some cover, or re-upload ...
- If you are some label, you may chose to put monetization on all and any clips containing your music, by any uploader, or tell YouTube to remove it (if you are independent unsigned solo act, you can only tell YouTube to remove those and YouTube will promptly do it).
- Couple of majors signed kind of "volume license" with YT, so their artists get paid as per agreement. Sign for Shoney Entertainment and there you go.
- Related ... Similar to old times when artists were paid for each blank tape/ cassette sold and similar to current times when all the blank CDs, hard disks ... and other media suitable for storing and copying music is taxed and taxes passed on to various unions, who are supposed to pass the money to their members ... depending on where you live and how high on union list you are ...
- The main thing is to realize, then educate your so called friends that advertisements in and over clips and pages are GOOD thing!!! Listeners pay nothing, artists earn something, evil companies fail because they pay for ads that nobody cares about.
- It would be nice if general population (moronic in it's majority) could understand the right to collect royalties from intellectual property, but tough luck.
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Why indeed would someone pay for your music? Ask that question of yourself. That is the business right there. Give me a reason. Have bought 4 Recordings this month already, when I have time to get to a computer I have to buy Jordan's and Petros Klampanis' new recordings. why? Great question.
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^^^^^ That. Triple G. That.
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Why have I not bought the two I want. Good question.
Jordan's I am torn do I buy the book I think is $60 Trump dollars. What is that in Australian dollars. Can I justify afford. If I buy cd will it cost him to email me. Would I have already purchased if book option not on table, these are important business questions.
Why have I not bought Petros' recording? It is on some platform that is hard for me. I have purchased things on a number of platforms kickstarter etc and had delivery issues, eg get a Dropbox link but does not download into iTunes ends up on my non apple computer I have no time to convert to iTunes format etc. consumer always listening to station WII FM. What's in it for me.
As a product service provider to be successful you have to keep asking what is important to the customer/client.
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Going off your point triple G...
In his book The Thank You Economy, Gary Vaynerchuk talks about how the internet, and more recently social media has changed the world and the way business happens. He points out that before the internet most people lived in towns or in neighborhoods (if they lived in a bigger city). And they generally didn't venture too far outside that world on a day to day basis. They usually worked in that area. They shopped at the businesses that were setup there. Everyone had their favorite neighborhood butcher, diner, grocery store, etc. And everybody knew everybody else. The store owners valued each customer and knew that if they didn't treat them right, that word would spread around and the neighborhood would find out. One unhappy customer could run them out of business. Of course, this is an over-generalization. But most of us are old enough to remember that type of lifestyle.
Then the internet came along and started to destroy that. Everything became global. You went to a website and order products, and the neighborhood mentality broke down. The customer was no longer confined to shopping and working within a specific radius of home. Now you could relatively easily buy something from halfway around the country, or the world even. But because of that... customer service disappeared. It was during this time that companies started under-funding their customer service branches and shipping jobs overseas. It didn't matter. In the neighborhood shops, you might have 100-200 regular customers. If you pissed off one of them and they told their friends, family, and neighbors, they could quickly spread the word and you could lose half your business overnight. But the internet changed the rules. That just wasn't a concern anymore. The internet gave business the opportunity to open their doors to millions and millions of potential customers. And it disconnected the customers from each other. Nobody knew who was shopping where anymore. Pissing off one customer no longer meant potentially losing half your business. It means losing one customer. What could they do about it? Not much.
Then social media came in. In Gary's view (and I agree) this is not just some stupid little time waster that teens play with when they're supposed to be doing their homework... this is a huge game changer and can be for the better (and likely will eventually get there). It's reconnecting the world in a new way and sort of taking us back to the neighborhood mentality. But now the neighborhood is no longer confined by distance. Mark lives in Australia and Joel and I are in NYC. But we can still connect and talk and share stories. All of sudden, the customer potential remains massive, but the neighborhood community is starting to reform. So now, for those who are smart, we can get the benefit of the global customer potential (selling music online) but we have to go back to treating everyone the way the guy running the butcher shop 70 years ago did. Get to know people, remember what they do and don't like, connect with them, set aside a cut for them if a holiday is coming up so their favorite doesn't sell out and is waiting for them when they show up, be friendly, offer them a free taste of a new cut of meat you think they might like... basically... give a shit about them.
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Jordan that is a fabulous post.
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What an exciting time we live in.
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I remember hearing 3D cinema celebrated as 'an immersive experience', and I had a laugh when a (cynical?) reviewer said, "The 'immersive experience' already exists - it's called theatre!"
I took a leaf out of David Byrne's How Music Works and started organising concerts at which I sell physical copies of my work, which speaks to audiences for itself - as an 'experience'. That 'experience' currently involves spoken-word, songs, music and film - and works as a persuasive pitch for merchandise.
The concert 'experience' is conceived as entertainment - and I've lightened up a little. Not so the CD-book, which sells an idea ("Could you bloom, wherever you'd been planted?") supported by music.
I see creating that 'experience' - à la 'David Byrne, or perhaps kids from Fame ("Hey! Let's do the show right here!") - as a form of 'giving'. But it's just giving value for money.
On the other hand, 'giving' gets interesting when you create opportunities for others - professionals, whether artists or administrators - to eat.
(Moreover, I think there's a level on which doing those professionals' work for them - i.e. instead of having them do it - is like stealing.)
Regarding sales, I can't remember where I came across this list of reasons why people say 'yes' - but I made a note, and I'm posting it because it might be helpful:
reciprocity
scarcity
authority
consistency
liking
concensusLast edited by destinytot; 02-06-2017 at 07:38 AM. Reason: addtion + clarity
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Can I bloom wherever I'm planted? No way. I'm no Prince. I try to have modest goals as in not dying. That's as good as it gets in N. Milwaukee. Originally Posted by destinytot
I'm still here for another two weeks.
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an interesting question regarding cd sales would be, all of us say in this thread, how many cds have we bought the last year? I probably bought about the same amount of cds in the last 2-3 years that i would have bought in one week fifteen years ago. I don't even have a proper cd player in the house anymore (and i have about 1500 cds here
). Nothing can beat the practicality of mp3.
Regarding becoming a professional musician now, being able to support yourself with music that is (which i have done for a good ~20 years now playing and teaching), from my experience it comes down to two things. Becoming a good professional, and networking. The first one isn't only about playing good. It is also about having the right attitude, punctuality, behavior, work ethic, doing what needs to be done, same as in most other professions. If you are an extremely unbelievably brilliantly gifted musician maybe you can make do on playing alone, but for the rest of us .. The second one, networking, is just how the professional music world works. Its how you play, and who you know, who knows you, etc.. You gotta go out, meet people, have people meet you, play, jam, do all the promotion you can think of etc. Its time consuming, boring, but, stay in your house, guess what, you 'll play in your house. You 'd be surprised on how many non musical things successful musicians have had to learn to do by themselves just to get things moving in their career.
Generally i 've found having an attitude doesn't usually get you far. Humility and politeness on the other hand..
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Tall in the saddle, Dude! Originally Posted by Stevebol
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I bought CDs by O Donel Levy, the late Jimmy Hill, Susan Boyle---others I can't think of just now. And I'd pay a monthly fee to youtube in a HEARTBEAT---if I knew the $ was going to the musicians...
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"YouTube Red", where you pay subscription so they would not run ads over clips you watch, plus some other goodies ... the revenue split for authors is based on the amount of time users spent with your clips, minutes watched, as opposed to number of views. Originally Posted by fasstrack
Before proceeding, bear in mind, I'm at the lowest level of YT content making, my investments are 0, apart from my time, but it's a hobby, so there ... my content is trash, virtually nobody likes it, or comes back for more ... I can count on my fingers all the shares by my "friends" on social media ...
Why is this important to know? Because more people like you and come back, more likely it is your content will serve an ad to the user and more expensive that ad will be, meaning you will earn more per ad served while more ads will be served. Double gain. You just have to be popular.
Now, the stats:
From 1. Jul 2016 till 01. Jan. 2017, my main channel received about 85000 views, but much less were actually serving an ad, roughly about 35000 adverts impressions to users. It gained me about EUR50 in revenue.
at the same time, "Red" users spent about 50 minutes on my clips (67 views) gaining me profit of EUR 0.05.
That is 10 minutes for 1 cent, or 1000 minutes for one EUR.
So, far from precise but indicative, If all users were "Red", at about 1 minute per session, I'd have about 85000 minutes counted for revenue split, or EUR85 total. That is about 60% improvement.
Conclusion: Clip uploaders, they call them "YT Partners", supposedly they should also be authors/ rightful copyright holders , do get money from ads and subscriptions.
EDIT: IMPORTANT ... more than 90% of all above I made on 1 clip only, that is not even music related, though there is my guitar playing heard in it. I have 279 clips on that channel, I don't know how many are music related,.Last edited by Vladan; 02-06-2017 at 05:27 PM.
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On reflection, I think I should add that I had the same modest goal when I wrote my Ludwig. (As Flannery O'Connor put it, "The life you save may be your own.") Because my brother and my best friend didn't survive. Writing, recording and playing is therapy - and selling a CD-book is validation. Originally Posted by Stevebol
I think perhaps the OP could do worse than 'sell' the idea of the CD (by extolling its virtues).Last edited by destinytot; 02-07-2017 at 09:08 AM.
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Tell him to do what everyone else does. He knows what to do. Originally Posted by AlsoRan
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[QUOTE=mrcee;734370]
This is the crux of it, plus many will tell you the industry is 'broken' even if you distribute digitally. CreateSpace will produce CDs to order even for small runs. CD Baby will distribute you around the world on iTunes, Spotify etc at the push of a button. It's so easy everyone's doing it and the music/video market is swamped ...and a lot of it is free. I see many well known players falling back on education and using social media like crazy to promote and reinvent themselves. They'll always stand above the rest because of who they are, but I get the sense it's a struggle nevertheless. Originally Posted by sgosnell
Somebody mentioned costs. They can be minimized by home recording and online cover design. The whole thing can be done in-house if you develop the skills. However, remember you need to buy the license for any jazz standards written after 1920.
Social mass media seems to be revolutionizing music marketing and distribution, but it seems to be killing it at the same time. We're in a bad place right now in my opinion.
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I don't think so. There are more people buying more things distributed in more ways than ever. But you have to connect to them. And there are more ways to do that than ever, directly and without interference from no-talent middle-men.
And production is cheaper than ever. Of course there's more competition than ever.
The "Why" is the only part that counts. Why do you pick up your guitar? The "what"is what you are WILLING to do for your "why". It comes naturally from the "why".
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I had a partner for fifteen years. He used the word "integrity" in place of the word "fear". Talented guy. What a waste!
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I am hoping to see this fellow again when I visit my coworker (the one with the son who has a $4,000 Pro Tool set up) in a couple of weeks, since he likes to hang out there. It will be interesting to see where he is at now in his journey, and what his thinking it. I will share the advice from this thread.
I'll see if he is interested in checking out this forum now, as well.
By the way, my coworker just informed me that his younger son has now picked up the guitar and wants to learn to play. This could be a fun visit. My coworker's daughter is a recording artist in their native country, and even he wants to play guitar now at 50 years of age.
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But that is precisely the problem in my view. It has become such a huge phenomenon it is overwhelming. For everyday items, things are probably more balanced but jazz, and especially jazz guitar, is a very small market. Originally Posted by Dennygomez
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