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Curious to get some feedback on this. I play with a small combo--drums, upright bass, piano, sax, guitar and 2 singers. We play standards on a regular basis at a neighborhood pizza place, as well as the odd fundraiser or private party.
We're really more of a backing band for the singers, but we do get to step out with solos frequently. (Now that we've added sax it takes a lot of the pressure off me as the main non-piano guy.)
Here's the thing--I think I do pretty well comping, and when practicing I think I can do a pretty decent solo--no Larry Carlton, but at least tasteful. However, sometimes when playing live I seem to freeze up.
I was noticing last night during a solo break that I was trying to listen to the beat from the drums and bass, as well as taking in the piano comping, but the different lines were distracting me and I was losing my flow and my place in the song. So I kind of went into a simplistic format til I reached a "comfortable" place in the song.
I think it might be performance anxiety, but it also seems like a kind of musical ADHD--too many inputs coming in, I can't focus on my task.
Does anyone have any tips? Maybe try to tune out all the instruments except the bass, which to my way of thinking, should be the foundation of the song structure? Should I have the piano player play less obtrusively, or maybe more forcefully to keep the melody flowing?
Or maybe just more practice? We've been playing most of these songs for a couple of years, but we only play as a group twice a month or so. I realized that playing to backing tracks isn't a substitute for playing together with real live people.
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02-12-2016 04:43 PM
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the more you do it, the easier it gets...so you got that going for you. Try and ease into your solo if you are feeling nerves. You don't have to play 16th notes on everything. Ease into it with some easy melodic playing
And yes, listen to the bass player. There you have the rhythm and the harmony. The piano player should be listening to you if you are taking the solo
also have a plan for what you want to do with the solo space they are giving you. the less you leave to chance the better, but don't work out exactly what you are going to do. Let the adrenalin from the anxiety help you. the easier your plan is to play and the more you leave yourself free to play whatever you can at the moment, the better. Then your nerves can add energy instead of make you miss a lot of notes in a hard run you worked out in the woodshed
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Nobody plays better after alcohol. They might sound better to themselves, however. It lowers inhibitions, sure, but if you have inhibitions about a tune, you don't know the tune well enough.
I think listening to the bass is a good idea. Your ears might be the problem, but maybe that piano player's a hack who's playing way too much while you're soloing. Or as Nate said, maybe he's listening to you and he's tentative because you're tentative...Hard to say, without hearing. But no worries.
If you're feeling lost, having somebody as a go to is always a good idea. I like bass players because a good one prides himself in being a "rock," good bass players are comfortable with their role and they kick ass at it. It's nice if you can figure out who the best musician is in the group. Always try to never be the best musician in the group
Other ideas...remember to breathe. I always find myself trying to hit every chord when I'm uncomfortable, as if the jazz police are staking me out and their ready to pounce if I let a change go by. Space is cool. Repetition is cool. Audiences like that...didja ever hear somebody take a great solo, and at one point, they just nail some little repetitive thing and THAT'S the bit the audience finally gets excited over?
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focus on the change itself - not just the chords THAT change - but the changing of the chords (man)
what happens when Dm7 turns into G7 and then Cmaj7 - what happens to all the chord tones? what are the easiest ways the main notes of the Dm7 can move (they can sit tight too of course) in order to rise or fall into one of the main notes of the G7.
there are loads of changes in a tune - but there certain ones that are crucial - and you need (at least initially) to learn to nail them - to 'make' them.
this is primarily about producing the right sort of rhythmical effect. you make the harmony move clearly at a given time - and that locks-into the time of the tune.
play through the tunes - having decided (roughly) which changes you are going to 'make' - and get the feeling of locking into the time by making the change - and change the tempos - always focusing on really being in time and hitting the change.
joe pass recommends practicing lots of straight eighths - and that's great once you've learned how to emphasize certain hinge-changes in the melody and let others play a more background role. until you do that you'll sound odd because you're trying to hit or nail EVERY change - and that doesn't work melodically.
i'm going on about this because i've a hunch that when you focus on the change itself and think about it primarily rhythmically the 'ideas' etc. - the creative thing - tends to take care of itself. this is not to say that its great - but its reliable and functional (at least).
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Good ideas all. Thanks.
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Sing your lines and play what you sing- that will help with natural phrasing and keep you from sounding mechanical and scalar. It doesn't hurt to stick close to the melody at times (so know the melody). Take a tip from Miles Davis and leave spaces and room-and if there's an awkward change that you don't know what to go over... do nothing. The soloist does not have to fill up every beat and hit every change.
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It's like zen. You have to allow yourself to just be in the moment. But remember, the soloist LEADS the band. Listening is important, but play in such a way that you force THEM to listen to YOU and respond to YOU. YOU lead. So it's easy to get distracted by the bands playing. But the mistake can happen that you can be too careful to listen to and respond to the bass or drummer or pianist, which is fine, but the SOLOIST doesn't want to FOLLOW to a huge degree.
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I have similar challenges!
Do you practise soloing? Approach that I am using at the moment is to build solos from the ground up by writing / notating either my own lines or ones I have transcribed & writing them out - so it is in effect a pre-composed solo. Next step is to learn the lines (I tend to keep it short - over one chorus) & really internalise them - once I have that done I start to play around with the lines - change the feel, make them drag, drop notes, add notes - change the order - in effect using the pre-learnt phrases to improvise.
I'm finding that this approach is helpful - helps me to really hear / understand the changes and is giving me a vocabulary to work with...............might be worth a try
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This process was advocated by Mike Christiansen in his book Mel Bay's Complete Jazz Guitar Method. Kind of the philosophy of.....you can't come up with great lines INSTANTLY, if you can't otherwise come up with them (even slowly) at first. Writing out your OWN solos was supposed to be the bridge between playing someone else's solos and pure, real-time improv.
Originally Posted by rkwestcoast
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Don't know that book - must check it out. What do you mean by "...was supposed to be the bridge between playing..." - that suggests that this approach is no longer accepted / works? Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
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At the risk of sounding simplistic, I have a few favorite strategies for getting back on track from a lost or distracted moment in a solo:
1. I go searching for one good note (or a chord) to get re-grounded. It's usually only a 1/2 or whole step away.
Playing for a bit on one string works well in this context and repeating the good note for some duration can sound very satisfying -- sometimes providing a sense of intentional resolution.
2. I take a pause -- hopefully rhythmically poignant, sometimes a bit longer than might be comfortable. Interjecting a couple of quick "nonsense" or "humorous" motifs into the space can also add spice. This technique always grabs the attention of my bass player!
3. I go back to the melody. I find that referencing the original melody in a theme & variations sort of way makes for very tasty solo content. If I can hear the melody, I'm usually not too lost!
These strategies are probably most useful in an extended solo format, which is my typical performance situation.
Might not be of much use if you only get one quick chorus to make a statement.
Sadly, I have plenty of experience in getting un-lost -- as I get lost far too often!
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No. It's just been a while since that book, for me. Also, "was supposed to be" in the sense that I never did enough of it myself. Originally Posted by rkwestcoast
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It's always worth posting this again.
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Just feel the groove and blow. When I used to play the sax I didn't care so much what the band was doing in term of the changes as long as it was in tune and the rhythm was there. Lester Young went through a period in the 40s when he first went out on his own and would work with young somewhat inexperienced cats. He would instruct them to not "drop any bombs, Baby. Just give me Boom Titty Boom and I'm cool all
night long". Or something like that.Last edited by mrcee; 02-14-2016 at 01:55 PM.
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I don't think you can speak for everyone on that... Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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This is really important. Make a statement. It doesn't matter if it's simple or complex. It may be generated from a melodic, harmonic or rhythmic impulse or idea (ideally they should be combined). What counts is putting something out there with your utmost conviction and following through. There's the danger that if you work out too carefully what you're going to play, it can create as much internal tension by closing yourself off to the moment. If for some reason, you miss a planned note or rhythmic entry, that can mean you'll seize up for lack of options. As for the distraction when soloing, strangely enough that can come about as a result of the other players comping proactively rather than reactively when they feel a soloist is treading water and needs a lifeline. Originally Posted by henryrobinett
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02-16-2016, 05:30 AM #18destinytot GuestThis really is a HUGE issue. Worth a thread of its own IMO, along with other addictions (including sugar). Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Re. the OP, I think the place to start- as with any message - is by considering audience and purpose.
I also think it's more important to be kind than it is to be clever. Sometimes that means pitching melodic ideas that are simple, whether 'pretty' or not. But at other times, it might mean accepting that people just don't 'get' you.
It's encouraging when musicians get you, and perhaps more so when very little is actually said - but that doesn't exactly pay the rent. (For me, whether that matters comes under 'purpose'.)
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Again, all good suggestions. I am reminded that the audience, well our audience anyway, appreciates a thoughtful, well-articulated SIMPLE solo more than a complex intellectual exercise.
I think someone mentioned repetition--I'm listening to KB repeat a phrase many times on the song Mule as I type this--it builds a tension with the audience, where they expect one thing and then are pleasantly (hopefully) surprised when it changes. Kind of like playing with my dog...
I also second what was said about bandmates overcomping either inadvertently or trying to fill a dead space, or "help out". Sometimes we get in each other's way.
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I've played a lot of years. I never sounded better after alcohol. That also didn't mean that before the last set I wouldn't have a glass of Cabernet on stage with me on occasion, years ago. I've also never known anybody who played better on alcohol. Never. Not after more than 40 years of playing. Someone might have a different experience. Or they might be in denial. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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hey boys, right here, let me tell you...alcohol and hard drugs will derail all you hard work faster than you can imagine. I used to have a real problem drinking. I started playing in bars when I was 14 and I drank like a fish by the time I was 20. Screwed up every relationship with every good woman I ever knew, brought all sorts of sadness, misery and evil into the world by the way I acted and to think of what I might have done with my life had I not been a drunk
Hey, I never got thrown in rehab or hauled in front of a judge, I was a functional drinker. But I was drunk every day. I played in spite of being a boozer not because of it. In a funny way guitar probably saved my from really going off the deep end, considering some of the folks I ran with back then. You want to hear something effed up? I knew I was going to far when my hands shook too hard to practice. That's fucked up. And it can happen to you
I quit drinking 10 years ago and now I'm a better person and definitely a better musician
that's my cautionary tale. But I remember when old guys would try and tell me the same things back then, too.
being a musician is a hard life. Its when you come off the bandstand that is always tough for me. When you go from that high to rolling cables and then you're back home bouncing off the walls. A lot of musicians I've known drank or got high to gear down. I guess that's part of what got into me
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I was trying to see how d&d got into this thread, but unless it's been edited out subsequently, or I missed it after 5 attempts, it wasn't by the OP?
Anyway on the topic of d&d; if you took musicians who had serious d&d issues out of jazz, there would only be a pale skinny ghost left.
In the past on this forum I got some criticism for reminding people that the reality of being a (jazz) musician is not the unalloyed glamour that a lot of younger people might think it is, and that d&d is real issue with that lifestyle, but I'm equally (or more) opposed to this kind of moral majority bs.
On the topic of solos in a low profile gig, I think the easiest way is probably just to stick close to the melody, modifying the rhythm and the phrasing. Playing gigs in restaurants is about not giving the diners indigestion (and I don't mean this flippantly). I am certain you've played more gigs than me in the last 10 years, so take it with a pinch of salt.
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Originally Posted by sunnysideup
Agree with Sunnyside Up: Full-time musicians are often a high-risk group for drug / alcohol use & mis-use given a range of environmental factors; including obviously your work place often being a focal point for the use of both - plus all the creative challenges, uncertainty of income / employment; how the life-style impacts on family life & relationships and a work schedule that often features intense (but short-lived) peak experiences (playing live with longer, more mundane tasks..........
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Nicely stated. Originally Posted by rkwestcoast
I have such a hard time getting my head around the whole teetotaler hanging out in bars until 2am thing.
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i have started a trio. we are not great but something that we are doing (jamming only at this stage) is playing the head more than just start and finish. we keep are improvs short eg 24 bars in a blues (I am sure as we get better this may extend out to 36 and 48), maybe 2 improves back to back eg guitar then bass then the head again followed by some more improv maybe drums then guitar. we do want to play live but our emphasis is on more songs keep em short rather than long improvs.
Why don't more jazz bands do this why jam for 10 minutes especially if you are not great, and even if you are why not come back to the head now and then. Many of the jazz heads are so fabulous, driftin, moanin, straight no chaser etc. Pop music repeat their choruses what 8-12 times in 3 minutes? for mine it helps my improv and surely for the listener it is more interesting.
is my thinking wrong, naive? surely not original.
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