Jazz players in Los Angeles?

[mrcee]

I wouldn't recommend Milwaukee for jazz. If you like to hear jazz way too loud, no dynamics and all Bird phrases then Milwaukee might be for you. Otherwise skip it.
I think it's odd that old R&B is very popular in LA but not NYC. Those are two jazz hot-spots though.
Here's my prediction for what it's worth- the popularity of old rock and old R&B is going to spread. The reason is that the big 3- rap, country and edm are getting weak. Rap beats especially aren't good these days. The only reason the big 3 are popular is because they're easy to dance to.
It's about jobs. Old school music can create them. Here's my thing- use a drum machine or drum tracks for old school R&B. You'll never get tight with a real drummer. It takes too long.
Jazz musicians tend to have a good ear for vocals and that's what it comes down to.
Start creating some jobs. People might be getting sick of canned music.
Too bad old-timers into jazz don't have some hot spots. Mid-sized cities where we can congregate. We could start a rumor about some place.
It has to be warm for me.
We need our AARP music!

man.....I don't know about any hot spots. Where I'm at right now is pretty heavy on the AARP crowd and lots of them.
They've got money and like to go out and seem to be almost too undemanding and critical of what they're listening to Someone was telling me about a restaurant bar patronized by American and European retirees where the entertainment was a sixtyish American woman who just stood in the middle of the room and screamed whatever, Janis or Billie Holiday songs, a capella with no apparent talent, much to the delight of the patrons. There are some good players here though. But strictly sleepy jazz standards from what I've heard. And not a lot of work to go around in that style. Doc Severinsen was here for a long time and had some combos that were pretty good. But pretty staid. He's a great player but isn't that far south of 90. I don't want to do straight jazz but I could. My idea is a funky improv trio or so. (Lot's of the places are tiny) Rhythmically tight but loose in other ways. Sort of aggressively laid back background music that moves into the foreground at it's own appropriate pace. Get the audience comfortably involved even if they're not there specifically for the music. Make them come to the music instead of visa versa. Low ego. Not like "hey everybody this is the Ringa Ding Ding Show and here's one of my new originals off of my latest homemade CD that just got released on soundcloud.". The AARP crowd doesn't necessarily need to dance. They're happy sitting around drinking and tapping their feet. They're not that old. They grew up in the 60s and 70s and are just fine with funky. That's more their music than straight jazz which is one reason why straight jazz isn't that popular. And I'm never offended by people talking while I'm playing. I'm sure there were people engaging in adamant conversations when the Big Guys were playing in the 40s and 50s. So I'll keep the volume low until they're hooked a bit. Then bring it up a bit when they start to realize that it's a wanna be slowed down John Mclaughlin/Freddie Stone hybrid playing with Sly's rhythm section pretending that they're playing on Bitch's Brew. Let the audience do THEIR thing. Talking, dancing , it's all good to me. I see videos of some performance space in Brooklyn with good young players and the audience is sitting there with their hands in their laps like they're in church pews. Thinking about their Power Point presentation at work. Come on people you're out on the town to have a good time. My show biz motto is Always leave your audience wanting more. A drum machine and or small kit should suffice. Drum tracks that had a solid bass and the drummer if there was one would only need a snare and a hat. I know a great young engineer/producer that spends some time down here. If he's around for a while we can, and have, put together some killer drum tracks. I'd rather jam over #selfie than some dead jazz.

There could be visa requirements for a full on working band but I'm not worried about that. My main concern is to put something together and see what I've got. There's no desperation on my part. I'm in it for the music regardless of
who's listening.

[mrcee]

That sounds like very unprofessional behavior.
Is it just NYC and NOLA now for jazz?

I can understand if you're a native Californian why you might want to bail but it's a wasteland in most other places. We can't all live in NYC.

SF's a good jazz town. More for what's available live than the players, imo. But there are some great players here and there. Some on this forum.

[docbop]

man.....I don't know about any hot spots. Where I'm at right now is pretty heavy on the AARP crowd and lots of them.

<snipping content just to space webspace>

The only good thing about gigs like that other than money is the the audience doesn't care much about what you play as long as it's easy on their ears and an occasional melody they remember. A great guitarist I studied with in the past had couple steady gigs like this he did a week to help pay bills. He'd play Giant Steps as a Bossa Nova, and sorts of cool Jazz tunes, but mainly on nylon string guitar at a soft level. I heard him and some really cools tunes and solo, but with a tone and beat that the audiences liked because they mainly want to eat and talk. He viewed it as paid practice and worked on arrangements, voice leading, all sorts of things. So a gig most would think "what a drag" he made benefit him.

[mrcee]

The only good thing about gigs like that other than money is the the audience doesn't care much about what you play as long as it's easy on their ears and an occasional melody they remember. A great guitarist I studied with in the past had couple steady gigs like this he did a week to help pay bills. He'd play Giant Steps as a Bossa Nova, and sorts of cool Jazz tunes, but mainly on nylon string guitar at a soft level. I heard him and some really cools tunes and solo, but with a tone and beat that the audiences liked because they mainly want to eat and talk. He viewed it as paid practice and worked on arrangements, voice leading, all sorts of things. So a gig most would think "what a drag" he made benefit him.

You're right, that's basically it. Outside of the USA it's possible to ramp it up a bit because expats like to actually go out and at least pretend that they're consuming real music. People in their sixties will actually pay money and boogy to a lame blues band. I don't see much of that in the States. In the States older people only seem to go out for the most part to eat and the music is secondary at best. A lot of the expat crowd is suffering from arrested development which is why they live in a foreign country. It's the Peter Pan syndrome.

[West LA Jazz]

For me L.A. isn't a real Jazz hotsptot (oh I can feel the villagers lighting there torches)


I don't want to want walk out of my apartment and hear a sniper rack his rifle.

Freaking HEE-LARIOUS!!!!!!

[docbop]

You're right, that's basically it. Outside of the USA it's possible to ramp it up a bit because expats like to actually go out and at least pretend that they're consuming real music. People in their sixties will actually pay money and boogy to a lame blues band. I don't see much of that in the States. In the States older people only seem to go out for the most part to eat and the music is secondary at best. A lot of the expat crowd is suffering from arrested development which is why they live in a foreign country. It's the Peter Pan syndrome.

Where I live now you ought to see all the old hippies that come out of the woodwork for local classic rock bands. I'm and old hippie and proud of it, but you really need to give the tie-dye clothes and headbands to Salvation Army and that ponytail when the whole top of your head is bald just doesn't work.

[wolflen]

things to consider...in the far past people would go out to see/hear live jazz..one..it was not on the radio..there were no CDs etc of this music..it was still "new" .. now..if you have satellite radio..your choices from the 30's to today are there with over a hundred stations...and on my setup..there is only ONE "realjazz" station..there are several "soft jazz" stops..which at times are very cool..they had Bob James live a few weeks ago..now he could be the epitomy of smooth jazz..I like his work with Earl Kluge..anyway..on this live spot..he played some "real jazz" and it was hot..yes our society is economic driven..its what sells.. I put together a small group some time back..keyboards Bass and me..we played in a small club..maybe 50 people tops..I worked up a Hendrix set..in a soft jazz style..hey joe..foxy..wind cries mary..they loved it.. then we did a couple of monk tunes blue monk..straight no chaser..and round midnight and goodbye pork pie hat /mingus..it was a young crowd..(god they are ALL young now) and I could tell many never heard these tunes..we got a very good response..the club..long gone now..there are very few clubs that can support "jazz" .. two in the los angeles area that are well known in Hollywood the Catalina Bar & Grill and the Baked Potato in N. Hollywood..there may be some bars that have a "jazz trio" but not top name players...all of the top name guys are now doing "concerts" and "tours" ..so for the young players looking for a place to play..

now there is a "club" in downtown santa monica..Harvelles..that used to be just a blues club..its now mixed with blues/jazz/burlesque-REALLY..I went there several times over the years..and its hard to explain..but I just didn't enjoy it..could be the way its presented..but its packed on sunday night..so good for them

[Stevebol]

Looking at Craigslist LA seems to be a rock town. Old R&B is coming up, maybe. A lot of dancing. Jazz may be weak there but it's certainly a better scene than most of the country.
Just my impression of LA.

[docbop]

Looking at Craigslist LA seems to be a rock town. Old R&B is coming up, maybe. A lot of dancing. Jazz may be weak there but it's certainly a better scene than most of the country.
Just my impression of LA.

A lot of the Blues in L.A. are R&B gigs the two have melted together. There is still quite a Blues scene in L.A. and surrounding areas a couple old friends plays for a few of the acts and make a living doing it. Then a lot of Gospel going on and those guys also do the Funk and Motown gigs. Jazz is there the Blue Whale, Baked Potato, The Cantina in Burbank, some restaurants like Typhoon and Herb Alpert has a place on the Westside then concerts. There is a jazz jam in Leimert Park I think that's still going. Before I left a monthly Jam at a church in Westchester that Gerri Allen would fall by now and then. A lot of the place don't last long it's a matter of getting keeping your eyes and ears open to hear about these thing. There was some rehearsal bands at the Union and one I play with at a school behind the Mormon Temple. The thing is this stuff comes and goes so fast.

[mrcee]

Where I live now you ought to see all the old hippies that come out of the woodwork for local classic rock bands. I'm and old hippie and proud of it, but you really need to give the tie-dye clothes and headbands to Salvation Army and that ponytail when the whole top of your head is bald just doesn't work.

Interesting. I spend a little time in Marin County, CA now and then and don't see much of that or am aware of it in the Bay Area. I'm not looking though. I've got some old hippie friends that play in and around Fairfax (Marin), an old hippie hotbed, playing what I suppose would be called classic rock. Thankless waste gigs with little or no audience or dancing. Sometimes it seems to get a little better with 10 or so people and a few dancing maybe and occasionally those clubs will get someone like Eddie Money but even then it's not like people are coming out of the woodwork. Guys like that can pull a half way decent crowd though. Maybe in some of the outlying areas in the LA orbit things are better. Maybe in other parts of the Bay Area it's better as well. It seems like there are some pro cover outfits in the SF orbit that do corporate gigs and whatnot (Motown specialists and like that) that do well when they play a local club. There could be people on this forum from that area that do well at that. It was never my idea of a good time but whatever pulls your tractor.

[mrcee]

I think this is very much on topic. It's about music in LA. It's probably hard to get situated there but it might be right for some people. I've only worked with jazz musicians one time. It was a girl vocal group and they used jazz sidemen. Best band I was ever in actually. After that it was a steps dance band. It was a mistake for me to play in a mixed band in Japan. I don't know why the bandleader asked me to go. I found out not long ago he passed away in 08'. He was only 48.
I'll never know now. He never went back there. I won't either.
Anyway I don't want to dwell on that anymore. Some musicians create a scene and some have to find it.
I'm a product of what Cameo fans call the 'Black new wave' I'd say. I didn't hear that till a couple years ago. A while back I was thinking, what did we call the music? We didn't actually call it anything. Now I just say R&B or funk as a loose description. pre-DJ.
It's old enough to be retro now.
'Funk' as a word has become a no-no for some people. I'm OK with that. People call it old school now.
Well thanks for the reminder I'm old! It's kind of stupid. People are all over Youtube saying....OLD school!! yeah it's old and you can't play it so what are you kids babbling about?
I think LA is probably good for jazz. Major cities that will be. NYC of course. I listened to some R&B bands in NY on Gigmasters.
....I don't think so.
The reason R&B is so popular in LA is because they destroyed it to being with. That's just like..my opinion as they say in LA.

If LA destroyed R&B it looks like they destroyed the local jazz scene as well. (see my above post re: the 'powers that be' that shut down Central Av. in the 50s.)

For an American city the size of Los Angeles (arguably the most important city in the world and, inarguably, the entertainment capitol of the world), not to have a real first rate world class jazz club, does not inspire confidence in the current state or future of jazz.

https://books.google.com.mx/books?id...01950s&f=false

[Stevebol]

When people go out for entertainment I think they want to see either something very professional or something very not professional.
LA isn't the only place that's gone corporate musically. There are a lot of young musicians now that are schooled and capable but there's no substitute for spending a lot of time playing in the clubs. Even in Milwaukee we have some corporate bands. Big outfits that do weddings, that kind of thing.
Oh, you want jazz? Sure they can accommodate you with a lineup. LA might have a corporate vibe but what's the alternative? There aren't many. IMO jazz doesn't hurt or help the club scene in general.
It's not easy to be a club musician. I think they're a dying breed.
Maybe it comes down to lack of foresight on the part of club owners. What do they want? Have karaoke or dancing girls. Doesn't matter to me.
I took psychology a few years ago at community college. One girl in the class was funny. She said look, I'm from the south. She said give up all hope and turn everything into a strip club.
Everything.
Admit defeat. I thought well at least we know where we're headed.

[mrcee]

I think Houston is the strip club capitol of the country.

[docbop]

When people go out for entertainment I think they want to see either something very professional or something very not professional.
LA isn't the only place that's gone corporate musically. There are a lot of young musicians now that are schooled and capable but there's no substitute for spending a lot of time playing in the clubs. Even in Milwaukee we have some corporate bands. Big outfits that do weddings, that kind of thing.
Oh, you want jazz? Sure they can accommodate you with a lineup. LA might have a corporate vibe but what's the alternative? There aren't many. IMO jazz doesn't hurt or help the club scene in general.
It's not easy to be a club musician. I think they're a dying breed.
Maybe it comes down to lack of foresight on the part of club owners. What do they want? Have karaoke or dancing girls. Doesn't matter to me.
I took psychology a few years ago at community college. One girl in the class was funny. She said look, I'm from the south. She said give up all hope and turn everything into a strip club.
Everything.
Admit defeat. I thought well at least we know where we're headed.

Corporate bands never heard that term before. We knew which guys were the ones that got the calls for gig and you'd try to get into their click of musicians they hired. The for celebrity gigs there was an in-crowd of a couple bands that were the bands you had to have to be cool. Then there were a couple services that citizens would use to hire from a musician to a full orchestra for events. Those usually weren't too good because they threw anyone they could together to fill the order. Where I live now there are "bands" but a lot of them are one person who gets called for gigs and then they have their regulars who do the gigs depending on availability then they have others they use. One guy has three "bands" and he will be working with one, and other two are gigging with some guys using the band name. After awhile out here you see the bands and its the same people just rotating around and they all play pretty much the same songs so they can show up to any band and play no rehearsal needed.

See you talk about psychology in college one my favorite lines from a teacher was in psychology class I took. The woman who taught the class oddly enough was also a parole officer and this was the 70's so everyone was stoned. The teacher is telling us about the upcoming mid-term test and says.... so you know there is research showing that you do best on tests when you are in the same state of mind that you studied for the test in. So if you study stoned take your tests stoned. A lot of grins in the room.

[Stevebol]

For me L.A. isn't a real Jazz hotsptot (oh I can feel the villagers lighting there torches) the Jazz that's here is so laid back and perfect chops the real Jazz attitude isn't there. L.A. musically was always the technically great town compared to NYC the place with the attitude and soulful players. I still remember the first time I heard NYC jazz in L.A. it was Woody Shaw and it was like fire was blowing out of there instruments, veins popping out, and when not soloing they were watching to focusing on whoever was. I'd watched in L.A. clubs Jazz players leave the stage when not soloing, talk to audience members by the stage, trying to get waitress to order more drinks. The treat gigs more like day job than playing art of Jazz.


This is one of those threads I've written four replies and deleted them, I don't want to want walk out of my apartment and hear a sniper rack his rifle. This is how I feel and I know others will disagree and express should yourself. I did write about it and delete, but I did recently go to concert here with a burning NYC sax player, I was totally depress when he played a laidback L.A. style show, so it still goes on.

I think I get the picture. I sense a 'smooth jazz mafia' thing going on in LA. As an outsider I can play stupid in regards to that.
There seems to be a lot of focus on recording and writing. I'm not hearing anything good in pop and even if there was I still wouldn't be interested. I like to play in clubs or just jam informally if possible.
I'm a club musician. Just a talker since I haven't gigged since the late 90's.
The grass is always greener.
Living in CA from the age of 20-27 and being a late bloomer it feels like I grew up there.

[mrcee]

If you haven't already, read the link I posted up thread a few posts. It covers the history of the LA music scene pretty well.

Oh what the heck, I'll paste it in again. It's good.

https://books.google.com.mx/books?id...01950s&f=false

[Stevebol]

If you haven't already, read the link I posted up thread a few posts. It covers the history of the LA music scene pretty well.

Oh what the heck, I'll paste it in again. It's good.

https://books.google.com.mx/books?id...01950s&f=false

I read the intro- pages 7-20. Very Interesting.

[docbop]

I think I get the picture. I sense a 'smooth jazz mafia' thing going on in LA. As an outsider I can play stupid in regards to that.

It started way before Smooth Jazz L.A. was into Cool Jazz and big bands even the Jazz radio stations would put me to sleep with Cool Jazz and big band music 80% of the time. The whole city atmosphere is run like hell, but look like your just strolling along and everything is that way music, art, restaurants, and etc.

[mrcee]

LA has always been about the next new thing with not much regard to history. Industry people thought that it was going to become the C&W center in the early 50s and not Nashville. So many artists from the SW like Bob Wills and Lefty Frizzell followed the Dust Bowl audience in the 40s and into the 50s. The transplanted Western Swing outfits would pack as many as 5000 people into the Venice Pier Ballroom. But it didn't really happen as expected because the Dust Bowl migrants grew up and started families and stopped going out and their baby boomer kids got into rock and r&b and weren't into the cowboy stuff. As a recording center it has obviously remained strong but as far as a "scene" goes for things like jazz or country, not really.

[mrcee]

It started way before Smooth Jazz L.A. was into Cool Jazz and big bands even the Jazz radio stations would put me to sleep with Cool Jazz and big band music 80% of the time. The whole city atmosphere is run like hell, but look like your just strolling along and everything is that way music, art, restaurants, and etc.

In the early 70s I can remember local radio stations playing hard jazz, R&B and Gospel, but it was marginalized and not mainstream.

[docbop]

In the early 70s I can remember local radio stations playing hard jazz, R&B and Gospel, but it was marginalized and not mainstream.

I would say that was the Soul stations more than KKJZ the Jazz station, I forget their call letter before they changed KJAZ? KCRW the Santa Monica College station played a big variety of music, but again not a total Jazz station. The early underground Rock stations especially at night would play some straight ahead Jazz, what was the station that became KROQ? L.A. was always a lot of big band music on the radio, my guess is because so many studio players and TV shows with big bands came from L.A.

[Stevebol]

I don't know about jazz but LA is certainly a good place for R&B. It has nothing to do with the recording industry though. It's just a general interest in the music both old and new. Tyrese is #1 in R&B right now. he's a good enough singer but the music is so full of cliche' after cliche'. Not for me. A lot of people there like the older stuff too.
R&B probably doesn't do much to enhance a jazz scene unfortunately. Smooth jazz is a not terribly interesting sub-genre of R&B to me.
I get the point you guys are making. LA should be a hot-bed for jazz but maybe it isn't. I think that starts with the club owners and the theme they want to establish.

[wolflen]

the socio-economic times and culture wars are a direct reflection of the arts..Hip-Hop is still a strong force for young people..remember now a new generation has grown up with nothing but HipHop..they have not been exposed to anything but that..Jazz they way we hear it on this forum would not interest many from that generation..the other factor is pure economics...people think they know how to run a business without a lick of knowing how to do so...like restaurants..people think "how hard can it be..I can cook.." great..can you balance a checkbook??..its not the food that closes most restaurants..its undercapitalization and poor management( this covers everything from poor table service to dirty rest rooms) ..the adage "well..people HAVE to eat.." yeah..but the don't have to eat at YOUR place..

Same framework applies to clubs..."we'll rent a space put in some tables and chairs, hire a band and voila! " Long standing clubs of all types of music had some money people behind them, if not running them directly..and its a lot of work..the "small club" is just an outdated economic way to get music to people and stay on top of the water..the profit margin is too thin..the lease goes up.(or the owners are doing drugs/gambling).the doors close..even if its packed night after night..

the concert venue is a much more viable way to present music.. now its usually a corporate sponsored space and every penny has been looked at twice..its all spreadsheets and projections of net profit per show..getting top name talent is built into the equation .. a small club cannot compete on that level..yes they can present new up and coming talent..but without mass exposure..empty seats will not feel threatened..advertising/marketing of any quality costs a lot..

giving the times..Im not surprised at the number of "internet" bands in rock/pop..and Im sure there are some jazz folks doing the same

[mrcee]

I would say that was the Soul stations more than KKJZ the Jazz station, I forget their call letter before they changed KJAZ? KCRW the Santa Monica College station played a big variety of music, but again not a total Jazz station. The early underground Rock stations especially at night would play some straight ahead Jazz, what was the station that became KROQ? L.A. was always a lot of big band music on the radio, my guess is because so many studio players and TV shows with big bands came from L.A.

I don't remember the name of the station but it wasn't one of the big ones. They may not have played jazz and r&b etc steadily but only part time as part of more general programming. I do remember a couple of the DJs. Ollie Collins a Gospel DJ and Dave Polk or Post who played straightahead jazz. This was around 1972-73. They were pretty down home.

[docbop]

I don't remember the name of the station but it wasn't one of the big ones. They may not have played jazz and r&b etc steadily but only part time as part of more general programming. I do remember a couple of the DJs. Ollie Collins a Gospel DJ and Dave Polk or Post who played straightahead jazz. This was around 1972-73. They were pretty down home.

That probably was the old Soul station KGFJ an early Black music station gone now. Today KJLH is the big Black music station and it's owned by Stevie Wonder.