Cruise ship gigs

[Stevebol]

^^^
Theft is the only thing I'm worried about. This would be in the US.

[docbop]

^^^
Theft is the only thing I'm worried about. This would be in the US.

My friends place is in L.A. and anything not nailed down was a target, mic's, cables, carts, rental gear, pa gear, toilet paper, you name it. Change over time was so hectic hard to keep track of stuff because so much is moving around with bands coming in and bands leaving.

[Stevebol]

^^^
I would only have drum kits, mic stands and small PA's. Stuff that's awkward or just a pain to lug around. Still that stuff would disappear in no time.

[Stevebol]

This won't work for me. Musicians would be stealing everything all the time and I'd have to raise prices for the rooms to keep up.
Next...

[docbop]

This won't work for me. Musicians would be stealing everything all the time and I'd have to raise prices for the rooms to keep up.
Next...

A business a guy from the church I worked at got into and is proving good is music licensing. He's a songwriter so he was familiar with the process so got into business of contacting whoever necessary to license the music and then negotiates a good price for his clients. He works from home and makes own hours. But again he's in L.A. where there's a lot of potential business.

[henryrobinett]

I had a studio a couple of times. We're looking at it again. I was worried that it wasn't viable. I wanted to build something in the home or a large room in the backyard. But my wife likes the idea of renting a space or leasing. It would be for studio clients, students and for my band rehearsal and recording my own music. She doesn't want students coming to our home. Plus all of my crap and the stuff we have in storage can go there, where ever there is. But rental rehearsal space?? No way.

[Stevebol]

^^^
Having students over under those circumstances could invite trouble.

[docbop]

I had a studio a couple of times. We're looking at it again. I was worried that it wasn't viable. I wanted to build something in the home or a large room in the backyard. But my wife likes the idea of renting a space or leasing. It would be for studio clients, students and for my band rehearsal and recording my own music. She doesn't want students coming to our home. Plus all of my crap and the stuff we have in storage can go there, where ever there is. But rental rehearsal space?? No way.

Have you thought about multiple small studios for monthly rental that is big in L.A. you get a room setup for mixing engineers, voice over artists, and similar types. They bring their own gear in, some rooms have small attached isolation room for overdubing. Then some places have a full tracking room the monthly clients get discounts on. Some have outboard gear for rental and other equipment. The nice part is the monthly clients you can better estimate income flow. I know a number engineers that have been renting the same room for years.

[Stevebol]

You should do rap. I'll be your dj.
And we'll pose on our album covers like this:

I've thought about it. I think I'm going to move. Milwaukee is all churches, bars with no entertainment and the Packers. I'm going to miss it but it's time to move on.
I heard the worst DJ on the planet a couple nights ago. There's a chain of 'vegas style' strip clubs in WI. They're just big cheezy clubs. They're OK but they should put them where people can afford to go to them. There's been a battle going on for years about putting one downtown. It won't happen. They put one near me but people can't afford it.
Conducting big business in clubs has been a part of different cultures for years. You can't explain that to narrow minded people who aren't willing to try something new.
Locals are threatening to move if they put this big club downtown. I'm moving because they won't.
Bars are skanky places. All of them. Why don't they close down the little dive strip clubs that are already downtown? Why don't they close down all bars including that vegas style place near me?
Get a clue Wisconsin.

[Stevebol]

You should do rap. I'll be your dj.
And we'll pose on our album covers like this:

The DJ at the club I went to recently just downloaded videos from Youtube. I doubt he was streaming because he added beats. The sound quality was horrible. Never heard anything that bad.They showed the videos on a massive display system. When he played Pharell Williams 'Happy' with a rap beat that didn't match at all I said to someone, this is the stupidest thing I've ever heard in my life. She laughed but I wasn't kidding.
Is that what DJ's do? I don't know.
At least it wasn't too loud. They used to have much better music when dancers could choose the songs much of the time but it was way too loud back then.
Why chase customers away with bad music? I don't get it.

[Broyale]

Is that what DJ's do? I don't know.

That's what sh*tty dj's do.

[cosmic gumbo]

Don't they run cruise ships on Lake Michigan?

[Stevebol]

Don't they run cruise ships on Lake Michigan?

They have something going to get from WI to MI but not cruise ships.

Well, I checked it out. I guess cruise ships on the great lakes is a growing industry. I'm going on some monstrosity in the atlantic in Feb. They provide dialysis. One ship on the great lakes is 400 passengers. That's a lot.

[ah.clem]

One ship on the great lakes is 400 passengers. That's a lot.

Hope it's not the "Edmund Fitzgerald II" - that'd be a rough gig...

[ChrisDowning]

The only work you really want on a cruise ship is a featured entertainer. For example you play and sing sets of jazz favourites or the American Songbook, etc.. Playing in one of the house bands is going to teach you to read better, but you are not going to earn much (this sort of work here in Europe has gone down the cheapest is best for the cruise companies and a friend told me of the house band on a cruise he went on being a Rolling Stones clone band from Bulgaria). Friends of mine who used to do it ten years ago say the money has gone down the pan.

A less committed option is to find work in a house band at a hotel or dining club. You are still on dry land and can still take lesson gigs.

But for me I would recommend two routes. A) Become the very best you can be and for guidence about that read Cal Newports book "So Good They Can't Ignore You!" B) Start developing a set for yourself as a solo performer (and singer?) so you have something to sell to venues that is just you or you and a couple of mates as a trio. There aren't many gigs like a budding Herb Ellis paying good money in someone elses band - but it can be a living, or part of a portfolio of things you do with the guitar.

To do ship work apply plan B) and offer to do guitar lessons between evening sessions as well. And maybe private parties on board - whatever - it can be hard work or a huge waste of your time between playing - its up to you. Watch out for three or four one hour gigs a week and then being stuck on board between those shows.

[Stevebol]

The only work you really want on a cruise ship is a featured entertainer. For example you play and sing sets of jazz favourites or the American Songbook, etc.. Playing in one of the house bands is going to teach you to read better, but you are not going to earn much (this sort of work here in Europe has gone down the cheapest is best for the cruise companies and a friend told me of the house band on a cruise he went on being a Rolling Stones clone band from Bulgaria). Friends of mine who used to do it ten years ago say the money has gone down the pan.

A less committed option is to find work in a house band at a hotel or dining club. You are still on dry land and can still take lesson gigs.

But for me I would recommend two routes. A) Become the very best you can be and for guidence about that read Cal Newports book "So Good They Can't Ignore You!" B) Start developing a set for yourself as a solo performer (and singer?) so you have something to sell to venues that is just you or you and a couple of mates as a trio. There aren't many gigs like a budding Herb Ellis paying good money in someone elses band - but it can be a living, or part of a portfolio of things you do with the guitar.

To do ship work apply plan B) and offer to do guitar lessons between evening sessions as well. And maybe private parties on board - whatever - it can be hard work or a huge waste of your time between playing - its up to you. Watch out for three or four one hour gigs a week and then being stuck on board between those shows.

Actually I started doing B) several months ago and music is fun again. Like it was in the beginning. At 57 years old I have to be practical. It would be better for me not to pursue music professionally anymore. I consider myself to be an amateur but I was a full time musician for several years long ago.

[ChrisDowning]

Oops!

[ChrisDowning]

I think one of the main diciplines is to know when to say no. It is far too easy as a musician to tell yourself that all opportunities to play and show what you can do should be accepted. Afterall, if you have nothing firm in the diary why not. But that is a mistake in your thinking. Real paying gigs don't only come unexpected through people we know and others who just ring us up - there should be in place a plan to find good quality work that moves our career, and our playing, forwards. I have met far too many musicians who have taken on a victim mentality and start to feel like its more about surviving than having an exciting and fulfilling career.

A friend of mine said something I thought was quite profound - playing for free, charity, and $25, is a hobby not a business. If we are professional musicians we need to get good at 'The Business'. And until some agent sees you as an opportunity for them to make some easy money, you are going to have to do this yourself. (I have never met any musician earning $75,000 or less that doesn't have to find almost all their own work). Finding your own work is very rewarding and you will soon find you start to value yourself more and will happily be able to avoid the freebies, charity gigs, and mates'-rate favours. It's not about getting good at selling yourself - it's about being good at developing relationships. If you avoid being pushing and are pleasantbto talk with, you'll find potential bookers will take your calls and visits. You want to work to a point where anyone wanting to book someone who does what you do well, puts you on their call list. Start making sure all the potential venues and bookers know you in a 5 mile radius and then start to expand it outwards to 8 miles, 10, 12, 15 miles etc. Once you have included - every sports club, bar, hotel, wedding venue, party venue, conference centre, studio, shopping mall, resturant, - on your list, you'll be surprised at how many potential places there are to play.

If you would still rather play on a ship for four one hour sets a week - fine. Bet if you follow my plan you'll earn a lot more and faster. And follow my plan and you'll soon have a set of local fans coming to your gigs - whereas you ship fans will be at home, 4000 miles away.

[cosmic gumbo]

If you would still rather play on a ship for four one hour sets a week - fine. .

I find it highly unlikely that a cruise line is going to provide a bunk and meals, plus pay for a person that is only going to perform 4 hours a week, what's the point? Your information seems contrary to most other information available.

[ChrisDowning]

I find it highly unlikely that a cruise line is going to provide a bunk and meals, plus pay for a person that is only going to perform 4 hours a week, what's the point? Your information seems contrary to most other information available.

Well its true. My brother-in-law is a magician. He does two or three single week cruise gigs in the summer. For the week he gets paid to do four one hour shows in the evening in the ships theatre, he gets free food with the staff, and a shared cabin with another of the entertainers down in the staff area. He treats it as a holiday for which he gets paid - loads of time off - gets to help on shore based trips just hosting people on and off buses or boats and gets to go with them to whereverbthey are visiting. He thinks its blast, but not much money, but quite a bit of credibility if you are working alongside well known stars who are performing top of the bill.

So it was true - but well spotted - I might have been making it up - but do people do that in the Jazz Forum!?

That was my point - life changes when you are featured act rather than just a player in the ships house band.

[Stevebol]

I find it highly unlikely that a cruise line is going to provide a bunk and meals, plus pay for a person that is only going to perform 4 hours a week, what's the point? Your information seems contrary to most other information available.

Yes, I thought the hours would be considerably longer for musicians. I thought Chris was saying 4 hours a day/night. That's still nothing.
Effin' magicians. They have all the fun.

[Hep To The Jive]

I auditioned 3(!) times for a cruise ship gig, and couldnt pass. Some sight-reading? You don't say! The audition is based 90% on how you sight read. The rest was easy, improvise on some jazz standards, reading standard chord charts, no problem with that. But the show tunes they give you to sight read, man, going from chords to single note lines, changing keys and tempos within one tune, where the hell do you learn that? I just never had that experience. And its not like I can't sight read at all, Im doing fine with Mel Bay books and others at my teaching job lol. But I have a feeling you gotta have long years of experience of playing in bands or orchestras where you just do that- sight read, to qualify for this job.

[Stevebol]

I auditioned 3(!) times for a cruise ship gig, and couldnt pass. Some sight-reading? You don't say! The audition is based 90% on how you sight read. The rest was easy, improvise on some jazz standards, reading standard chord charts, no problem with that. But the show tunes they give you to sight read, man, going from chords to single note lines, changing keys and tempos within one tune, where the hell do you learn that? I just never had that experience. And its not like I can't sight read at all, Im doing fine with Mel Bay books and others at my teaching job lol. But I have a feeling you gotta have long years of experience of playing in bands or orchestras where you just do that- sight read, to qualify for this job.

That's just one side of it. You can form a combo, do a one-man band thing and just pursue the gig like any other. It can be up to musicians to come up with something. Or, do the site-reading thing.
They want entertainment.

[docbop]

I auditioned 3(!) times for a cruise ship gig, and couldnt pass. Some sight-reading? You don't say! The audition is based 90% on how you sight read. The rest was easy, improvise on some jazz standards, reading standard chord charts, no problem with that. But the show tunes they give you to sight read, man, going from chords to single note lines, changing keys and tempos within one tune, where the hell do you learn that? I just never had that experience. And its not like I can't sight read at all, Im doing fine with Mel Bay books and others at my teaching job lol. But I have a feeling you gotta have long years of experience of playing in bands or orchestras where you just do that- sight read, to qualify for this job.

Sightreading is just one of those things you decide you're going to do on not, because people who can read usually find work. It is something to learn and maintain you need to practice daily it's is a skill that can get rusty fast. For doing shows and things playing in rehearsal bands is good way to get used to reading charts. Also I got into doing pip bands for small theater groups to get experience. It can be very helpful to find a teacher who specialized in teaching reading. When in my day a lot of the guys when to this conductor who taught reading, I'd say 90% of what he worked on was reading rhythms. So if you want to do it just decide to and put the work in and don't let horn players get you down, they grow up reading so its just like speaking a second language to them.

[Hep To The Jive]

Sightreading is just one of those things you decide you're going to do on not, because people who can read usually find work. It is something to learn and maintain you need to practice daily it's is a skill that can get rusty fast. For doing shows and things playing in rehearsal bands is good way to get used to reading charts. Also I got into doing pip bands for small theater groups to get experience. It can be very helpful to find a teacher who specialized in teaching reading. When in my day a lot of the guys when to this conductor who taught reading, I'd say 90% of what he worked on was reading rhythms. So if you want to do it just decide to and put the work in and don't let horn players get you down, they grow up reading so its just like speaking a second language to them.

Two things. I'm a fine reader, and OK sight reader (or close to OK), but you right, unlike the horn players, who basically sight read everything from the day one, I'm not on that level. I've tried, and I got to some level that gets me through in casual situations, but I'm not there still. Maybe it's due to me being self taught and ear player for the first few years of playing (I graduated from 2 music colleges since then, but still prefer to play by ear if I can get away with it.)

Second, I don't think I want to put all those hours into practicing sight reading anymore. At this point, I'm interested in jazz. Improvising, finding my own voice, playing jazz gigs. It has nothing to do with sight reading. All the gigs I got so far have nothing to do with that and I've done just fine. So I guess I just not looking for cruise ship gigs anymore. Life's too short, I need to pick my battles carefully