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Originally Posted by SamBooka
I've been lucky and had the music stand tilted *just right*.
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10-09-2012 03:26 PM
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Between the safety of the $500 iPad and the $7k L-5, I didn't even think about the iPad to be honest!
On a tightly adjusted stand, it's no problem at all unless the room is full of elephants.
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Originally Posted by Strickland
My experience is limited .... but if you call Giant Steps I expect you will see even some of the best players bow out on that one ...
That is one of the tunes that takes a few years of dedication to develop some competency on ... at best a few months for the extremely talented
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Well put sir. At the music college where I study every guitarist ends up playing through all kinds of amp - be it a decant polytone, or a crappy keyboard/bass amp, and as you say they are still the same notes.
As I like to think about good gear can make a good guitarist sound better but it cant make a bad guitarist sound good.
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Originally Posted by Broyale
Not sure about the "pay to play," but sounds like a good relaxed jam session with folks who can actually play.
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Great post! Wish I could have been there.
Next time, try sight transposing Summertime. No guts, no glory!
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Originally Posted by Jonathan0996
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Originally Posted by Bluedawg
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Originally Posted by rpguitar
Now about those two sentences. I have had different experiences with reverb and delay... I have used them in those situations you mentioned without any problem. Delay and reverb are like eq, each room and band is different.
About the last one - yes, it's killer. I see guys using them everyday. It kills their ears (learning changes fast) and their brains (transposing fast)... of course it can save your ass on situations like those. But come on summertime is easy to transpose... sorry but I am really against real books
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Originally Posted by Patrick2
Last edited by Spook410; 10-09-2012 at 10:21 PM.
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I just finished an 8 week workshop and my experience was much the same. There was me, piano, bass, drums, accordian and two saxes.
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yeah very nice post ...... and great that you getting out and jamming , it's worth it's weight in gold........
interesting point you made about gear ... and shifting your focus away from it ...and that you realised it's what you play that matters not so much what guitar or amp
the most important lesson i learned many years ago at music school was learning to play with what was on hand..... and still sound like yourself and not be distracted by the gear to a point you forget to concentrate on what you play ....
and yes another great lesson learnt ....as you discovered the sound you get in your "home" music room /rehearsal space .... is never what you get at venues when the size of the venue / the acoustics /the gear on hand /how large an audience is in the room / all affects the tone ..........
and a great lesson is that that fat warm lush tone you get in your rehearsal/front room when you play by yourself ........seldom works in an ensemble ...where you need to have a sharper tone with a hint of bite to cut thru the mix at a reasonable volume ...as no one wants a player who needs to turn up too loud so their instrument can be heard and then have that swamp the mix with bass/lower mids...so a sharper tone is more clear and audible and stays out of the way of other tones.......
..and also that archtops can feed back on loud stages and get affected by all the other noise on the stage ... thats why when i do loud gigs i rather take a solid body electric jazz guitar ...and not the archtop...which i love and looks the part but i know with a solid body and a loud stage i have zero feedback/booming issues ... so learning to pick your tools for specific jobs is needed .......
seems you had a fun experience .......enjoy and let us know what happens next time....Last edited by Keira Witherkay; 10-10-2012 at 02:30 AM.
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Some helpful and thoughtful posts here - thank you all. Keira, yours is appreciated.
I just want to point out that I'm not a total newbie to playing with people. I have done it a decent amount over my 35 years of playing guitar and bass. But it has all been something other than real traditional jazz with people competent at that style. Lots of rock, funk, free improv "jam band" or avant garde stuff. And also some very nice duo acoustic work with a singer/guitarist friend over 20 years.
Again, no straight ahead jazz and especially not with a proper archtop - not in all those years. It's like coming out of the closet.
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The biggest single difference for me in playing jazz....as opposed to learning in a teaching environment....was to join up with a workshop, the Southend Jazz Co-Operative in Essex, UK.
Southend Jazz Co-op
It's an environement where anyone who wants to play can come along and have a go; there are pro musicians as well as complete amateurs in the ranks; and there are visiting guest "names" from the London gig circuit that come along from time to time and give us the benefit of their knowledge/experience. The cost to members (for hire of hall, costs for reproduction of teaching materials, fees for guest tutors, etc.) is a few pounds a week; and you get to meet with like-minded individuals, all in the same kind of position of trying to get to grips with this language that we call jazz. It's a great environment for learning and building confidence.
One good thing is that there's very little (visible) judgement of your efforts - everyone's aware of how it works and they've been in the same boat, so no-one laughs at your efforts. And anyone who tries to get flash and start cutting heads is treated with the contempt that they deserve. 'It's a learning environment, dummy, not somewhere to show off, right?' We have good players, but nobody belittles the newbies.
When I arrived, I was a refugee from a blues-rock band with all of the cliches impled by that - a few years later, I play in a jazzy quartet, have been in a big band, and work with two duos, all of which came from joining up. Every town should have one. If your locale hasn't, maybe you might start one up, yeah?
And no, just 'cos it's called a "Co-Operative", doesn't mean that we're communists, 'kay?
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Originally Posted by mangotango
With our group anyone can host and set up the parameters such as,
"open to 7 musicians, no more than one person for each rhythm section instrument, leave one spot open for the drummer and bass player."
That is basically the criteria I use when I host (there is a problem that if you don't spell it out like that, you just might get four guitarists). Every time I've hosted I've been able to fill out the rhythm section and I have a waiting list in case someone cancels. It's really nice that you don't have much "admin time", no emails to send, no scrambling to fill positions if someone cancels, etc. If someone calls a tune that is not in our "top 40" book or the real book, they post the pdf of the chart in the files section. It's all very easy on the host.
I've also hosted where the criteria was "5 musicians, guitarists only, we'll play solos and duets".
We also set up jams at restaurants/bars and we have one coming up at the Musicians Union Hall. Those are open to a large number of folks, like 20 or 30. I play in the house band of a recurring one at a restaurant, that's not easy for me as I don't know what will be called, sometimes play tunes I've never heard, but it's a good learning experience.
Anybody can set up one of these groups on meetup.com, it's free to do. I encourage you to set one up in your community if there isn't something like this already.
SAN DIEGO JAZZ COLLECTIVE (San Diego, CA) - Meetup
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Originally Posted by fep
Oh and we play a few gigs a year - which gives us a bit more focus and purpose.
Interestingly enough, there's half-a-dozen bands on the local circuit whose members are partly/largely drawn from the Co-Op's ranks. So it's also a good networking environment, or a good place to find a gig.
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You know.. technology will soon allow real time jamming with others online. This is already available to some with high speed connections.
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Originally Posted by Spook410
I've done it but the person I set it up with bailed on the project so I tabled that project. I was amazed that it worked.
eJAMMING AUDiiO – The Collaborative Network for Musicians Creating Together Online in Real Time
I thought it was a great idea and would take off. But when I looked in the lobby there was maybe 1 or 2 jams going on in the whole world and they were 'private' jams. It's hard to understand why it wouldn't be more popular.
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The experience I got playing in a workshop was invaluable. The instructor was excellent. The only down side for me was the big focus on Charlie Parker material. i decided to get into his improvizations more but I'm always reminded of a scene from the movie "Bird". Bird tells his wife he sold some songs and his wife say's he got ripped-off. He say's, "You didn't hear the songs".
Last edited by Stevebol; 10-10-2012 at 02:35 PM. Reason: spelling
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I can see a great deal of benefit from playing in a safe, friendly and non-competitive environment. You can learn a lot, and I think it's a very cool thing.
On the other hand, I've also learned a lot by being sneered at by the local bad-asses, by trying to keep my dignity in their cutting contests, and by coping with tempos that force you to pick your eighth notes judiciously. You end up making sure you're a lot more ready for serious business the next time you show your face.
It's not always fun, but it can be a real growth experience. Sometimes getting your butt kicked is what makes you grow.
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Originally Posted by Jonathan0996
My own epiphany came early in my playing life: I was at the graduate school at UT Austin, and a group of us, including Sterling Morrison of the Velvet Underground, were getting together regularly. One evening Sterling turned to me and said, "I don't think you are listening enough to what you are playing." Quiet words, and they cut to the quick. Thanks, Sterling.
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Of the many things you can't always control in a "live" situation, the other players can be the bigger challenge. Some are great and polite, others just clueless, some obnoxious, irregardless of their talent. Just like any other encounter we humans face in daily encounters.
The other players are dealing with their own set of challenges, to be fair.
Thanks for this thread. After many live gigs in many many years, I find some of your challenges still existing in my world. But I will say this briefly: finding the "right" gear will enable you more, and once you hear the music in your head starting to come forth on the stage, you will play better and be encouraged greatly.
IMO: maybe the best $20 spent!
Booked next week yet? ;-)
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Excellent post. A lot of great info.
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Great thread on the difference between playing on stage and the safety of your den...your account of what you were experiencing made my day as I had a similar experience recently given that I am just beginning my journey of actual performance versus practicing on your own...
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I have a Dick Knight L5C clone with floater and it is great for solo gigs or duos but does not balance well with a full band. Gibson jazzer with mounted pick-ups is the tool for the job.
i still learn a new standard for 4-6 weeks and get it down thoughly - way to go i find. I dislike jams personally - i am a classical background and i like to know roughly what I will be playing. Mesa Boogie Lonestar makes killer jazz amp btw - dark and well balanced sound.
Cheap floating humbuckers
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